Dave Robisch | Pacers & KU Legend Exposes ABA’s Forgotten Stars | Ep. 63

Dave Robisch isn’t just a Kansas Jayhawk legend — he’s one of the greatest scorers in KU history and a 13-year pro who lived through the wild, revolutionary days of the ABA. In this episode, Dave sits down with Nick and Jason to share his journey from Springfield, Illinois to Final Fours and ABA arenas. He opens up about his proudest basketball moments, the heartbreak of falling short against UCLA, and his advocacy with the Dropping Dimes Foundation — fighting for justice for forgotten ABA players who never got their due after the NBA merger.

We cover:

• His standout career at KU, including his 1971 Final Four run
• Wild behind-the-scenes stories from the ABA
• The injustice many ABA players still face today
• Why the Dropping Dimes Foundation matters
• How it felt to have his jersey retired and his name etched into Kansas basketball history

Whether you’re a die-hard hoops fan or just love a good redemption story — this one’s for you.

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Transcript

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trying to get the NBA on the same page for all the ABA players. Yep. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Well, let me hit record and then we will get going. we are continuing on with our Dropping Dimes Foundation, the movie The Waiting Game and the ABA series that we've been doing here recently where we're trying to advocate for some of the ABA players that have been done a great injustice throughout the years by losing their pensions after the so-called merge that happened with the ABA and the NBA. But today our guest is he's, he's definitely Kansas royalty. He's one of the top 10 scores of all time for the university of Kansas. He's a final four standout, a two time big eight player of the year and a certified all American. He went on to ball out for 13 seasons between the ABA and the NBA and his impact on the game still echoes today. So I'd like to go ahead and welcome Dave Robich to the show. Dave, thanks for being on today. Oh, I'm looking forward to it. It should be a fun conversation. lot of great memories, lot of important things we want to talk about with Dropping Dimes and the ABA-NBA merger and relationships. should be a good conversation. Yes, sir. Okay. Well, one thing, one thing I wanted to point out and one of the reasons I thought that, you make a great guest is because when you were drafted, by the Celtics, if, and correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I could tell when you were drafted by the Celtics, you actually chose to stay in the ABA and play for Denver. Is that correct? That is correct. Back when I came out of college, obviously we had two leagues. So in a way that was, you know, a good situation because you had two negotiating points. So yeah, I was drafted by Boston and then I was drafted by Denver and the ABA. so with Boston, I had to deal back in those days with Red Arbach and he was a tough negotiator, a tough coach. and then in Denver, believe it or not, another, another tough guy, he was coaching general manager was Alex Hannum. So, he, he was a tough coach, but he gave me, you know, and a, and a tough negotiator too. So it was, interesting to go through that whole draft process, but I thought, the best opportunity was in Denver because. They, as I remember back on the negotiations, they were offering pretty much the same type of money, which wasn't by today's standards, it wasn't hardly anything. So I said at the end, I said, look, forget the three-year contract, give me a one-year guaranteed contract. and they also talked about a signing bonus and we'll go from there. So it ends up that Red wouldn't, he wouldn't guarantee the one-year contract. He gave me a little bit more on a signing bonus but he wouldn't guarantee the one-year contract. And Denver gave me the signing bonus and a guarantee on the one-year contract and I just thought I needed a year to to prove myself without any big worries. So I decided to go to Denver and trust me, I'm not, as it turned out, we love Denver, we love Colorado. So I'm glad we actually ended up in Denver and didn't live in Boston. Yeah. Well, and I would think that if the, if the pay was, was similar, I would think that the, the more fun choice for those times would have been the ABA. You know, that was the more, the, you know, the, the more exciting kind of flared out, league of the two, right? for sure. the people, mean, when you talk to different people as you go through the years, a lot of people didn't realize all the things that the ABA brought to the table. And as time goes on, you you look at the entertainment, the more wide open style of game, then you get into you get into the All-Star game and Who started the slam dunk contest? let's figure that one out. It's the ABA. Who developed the three point shot? that's the ABA. So it was a more up tempo game. It brought some more flair and life to the game. And let's remember back when I came out of college in the early 70s and then into the mid 70s before the merger. The NBA wasn't on any great solid ground. mean, both teams were struggling, both leagues were struggling to make it and television revenue wasn't great. You know, having trouble drawing fans into the stands. So it was a tough time for everybody. And I think sometimes, especially people that are more atone or more in look at the NBA, they forget the struggles that the NBA wasn't doing any better than the ABA at that time. Yeah. Hey Dave, I want to hit the rewind button just real quick here. Let's talk a little bit. Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, Kansas ball there. what fraternity were you in at Kansas? I read that and I didn't want to misquote that. So what fraternity were you part of there at Kansas? I was a Sigma Nu. Sigma Nu and that happened, know, great thing, short story on that. mean, my freshman year and you guys remember freshmen weren't eligible then. So let's not even talk about how many points I scored if I didn't even get a freshman year. But the one thing, we lived in the dorm and I didn't particularly enjoy the dorm life. So. My easiest way out was to join a fraternity and after mid-year, second semester, couple of my basketball teammates were Sigma News, so it all worked out good. I moved into the fraternity house, had a really good experience there and had a lot of fun and met a lot of great people. No, Nick's definitely kind of a sports guy and music guy. I'm kind of your sports guy as well, but correct me if I'm wrong. James Naismith, Fogg Allen, both from Kansas. Well, fall down, James Naismith invented invented the game, but I don't think he was from Kansas, but he admitted invented the game back in in Massachusetts. But the history of, you know, college basketball, if you look at the history and all the coaches and players that have come through Kansas, I mean, you look at James Naismith, the the inventor of the game, then you look at Fogg Allen, then let's talk about Adolph Rupp, let's talk about Dean Smith, Ralph Miller, coaches that have come through there. And of course, in my mind, if not the best, if you look, if you forget eras of time, most talented gifted physical player ever was Will Chamberlain. But then you get into discussions about different eras and this and that. so the tradition and then you look at if anybody have you have you guys ever been in Alan Fieldhouse? I have not. best college venue for basketball in the country. and I don't care what, I don't care what Duke says, Cameron Indoor or, or, you know, North Carolina or Kentucky. If you go into Allen Fieldhouse and, and it's sold out every game and you witness the game there, there's no better, place to watch a game than Allen Fieldhouse. Let's talk a little bit about, about the Dropping Dimes Foundation. How, did you come about, come across Dropping Dimes and how did you meet Scott Tartter? Well, it was interesting. first met Scott, obviously Darnell Hellman and I played together with the Pacers for two years after I left Denver. And so we had stayed in touch and then Darnell was still working for the Pacers when we moved back here to Indianapolis in the Westfield area from where we lived in Springfield and worked for over 20, almost 25 years. But so Darnell and I stayed in touch and then he started talking and we, and I learned about dropping dimes and got to meet Scott and just an awesome guy, a big fan of the ABA, grew up in Indianapolis. And the thing that really, and the thing that really boggles my mind with Scott is all the work that he put in on the dropping dimes. He did not take one cent charge, one fee, did it all on his own time and created a tremendous foundation and got a good board of directors and he just. Just an amazing guy who grew up here in Indianapolis and loved the game of basketball and grew up watching the Pacers and just got that thing started with Mel Daniels and been an amazing ride. And I'm just happy to be a part of it since I moved back here. We moved back here in 2017 and then got going with dropping dimes and been staying involved and trying to help promote the cause. I know we already talked fraternity there at Kansas. We won't go back to those days, but I think from what I understand, and I'm living vicariously through the research I've done, but, any team that you've been on as a fraternity, know, if you have a barbecue or an event in town, you, you, you kind of gravitate towards those folks. So is it safe to assume that the dropping dimes fraternity ex expresses the injustice that had happened, but it also expresses the sense of camaraderie. and lack of a better term fraternity there of the ABA kind of players together. Yeah, great way to describe it. I mean once you get involved and you have a chance to be around Scott and then Darnell and then you know, then there's board members, but you and When you get involved like that, you sense that feeling of the proud history that we kind of talked about earlier about a lot of people didn't realize. mean, still to this day, don't realize the impact that the ABA had on the game of basketball. And the NBA would not be where it's at today without what the ABA and not to mention all the players that came from the ABA into the NBA, but That there is a sense of pride for sure when you're around the any of the any of the ABA players that are still with us today. You feel that sense of pride for sure. What brought you back to Indianapolis? Did the Pacers, did it kind of end up feeling like home? mean, when you think of home as Indiana or Indianapolis, the place that you consider home? it is now and that goes back a little bit back to my playing days. We we came here in the mid 70s to play and then we of course had to move away and played elsewhere. But we we lived here and then and then after I was through playing, we came back here. after I retired and was trying to look for employment after basketball. So we were here for a while then, but the job opportunity carried me back to Springfield, Illinois, where I went to high school and graduated there. And we lived in Springfield for almost 25 years and my wife and I both worked in I worked in state government and she worked in county government. And then when we retired, my son Scott, who played at Butler, he lived, he's lived in Carmel and he has, and after we retired, he said, well, dad, did you think about this, you know, coming back again for that third time and calling, Indianapolis and Westfield and Indiana home again. And when you have family somewhere, it makes it, you know, and we're very glad we did that because Indianapolis and Westfield, the Westfield area is just growing like crazy. But it feels like home and we're happy we we made that move. And let's see, we made that move in 2017. So we've been here like eight years now. It's hard to believe that, but we've been back for eight years. It's a pretty great city. know, I like, I always say this, but it's a very underrated city. You know, like there's a lot of things to do in Indianapolis and the Westfield, you know, the North side Westfield Carmel area, beautiful area, you know, really nice place to live. So yeah, Westfield's there. had a friend that had a restaurant up there. I think it was called the local. Have you been up? Have you ever heard of that? Or you've been in there? yeah, yeah, I've heard of it. We ate there a couple of times, yep, the local. And like I said, I mean, you go out now and there's so much construction, new building going on because, know, caramels basically run out of room almost. They keep trying to put up apartments everywhere, but Westfields are growing. It's the... number one growing city in Indiana and one of the top 10, I believe, in the whole country as far as growth. Yeah, I've heard that Westfield and like this. think Zainzal is another big one. That's the you know, Brownsburg. But yeah. Yeah. Well, hey, you know what? Glad to have you back to Indy. Have you have you been to any Pacers games since you've been back? You know, I go to a few, you know, and I watch some on TV. I got to be honest, Bob Costas harped on this last night at the bank at the banquet we went to. The whole the whole scope of basketball at the pro level and the college level has changed. And when you You know, especially when you go to a Pacer game, it's almost like it's all more about the entertainment than it is watching basketball. And it's just lost some appeal for me. And obviously you guys know what's going on with the NIL and the transfer portal. And I've talked to a number of players and people that have followed basketball for a long time and it's lost some of its luster and And I know I don't feel the same after this year and watching Kansas play and the NIL and the transfer portal and all that going on. It's changed the scenario of what basketball is. And I don't think it's all for the good. And we'll just have to see how it works out. But there's some work to be done. it's just kind of It's just kind of changed my opinion about watching basketball at the college level and the pro level. Dave, think looking up to you literally there cause you're 6'10", right? And I'm only 6'2", so I look up to you. I pretty much have to, right? There at Kansas and through the NBA, I've done my research, but I can only see statistics on paper. Talk to me a little bit about how your game, how was your preferred game? Did you like to go up and down and talk to me about half court sets, how you preferred to play so the audience at large can get a sense of kind of what your preferred styles were on the court. Okay, well obviously, when I went to Kansas, I was very fortunate to have great coaching staff and Ted Owens was the head coach when I played and he was there for 19 years and then Coach Miranda was the assistant coach and I was very lucky to have him. He never missed one day of my practices from my freshman year all the way through my senior year. And he was a big fundamentalist. We worked a lot on inside moves. But also, I had the freedom, especially my senior year, to go up and down more. Because a faster paced game allows you more opportunities to score. And so it was kind of a mix of inside and out and learn how to play basketball the right way at Kansas. Played defense, had success, went to the final four. So, and obviously I think it must have worked out okay because I worked to play for 13 years. But like I said, Kansas is a special place and I learned a lot there. followed the tradition of great players. Like I say, Will Chamberlain, Jojo White was there, Walter Wesley who played in the NBA for 10 years, and Clyde LeBellet back in the early 50s. So the tradition is special. I got great coaching and Also, you guys will laugh, but I also had a green light, so I can pretty much put it up when I wanted to. So that was a good thing. like I said, only, freshmen weren't even eligible then. And so I had three years and no dunk rule, couldn't dunk. That's the Will Chamberlain rule there. know, Kareem couldn't dunk in college. couldn't yeah we just couldn't dunk then so and then was fortunate enough in the in the pros to play for some great coaches I mean Alex Hannum, Laurie Brown, Bobby Slick Leonard here with the Pacers, Doug Moe so I was blessed to have some really good coaches and great teammates and and one quick little side bit is when we were playing UCLA in the semifinals. Of course, we were both 27 and one, so I wish we would not have to play until the championship game. But we played in the semifinal. We had trailed the whole first half. And then in the second half, I came down on a fast break, hit a jump shot that I shot hundreds of times. Made the basket. Okay, I didn't miss it I made the basket that would have put us ahead of UCLA in a crucial part of the game and the ref called me for travel no. No. And to this day, he still knows the ref where he lives. I just plan. just plan. So and it's funny because of all the shots I made, you know, I was fortunate to do that. But the one that I can't ever get out of my mind is the one that I made, but they took away from me. So so but it's been a it's been a good ride. Jason and I, had the opportunity, was it January? Was it back in January? I can't believe it's already been that long, but we had the opportunity to go to Newfields and see the, you know, the screening of the waiting game. so you, you know, you being involved in the Dropping Dimes Foundation, all that, when you first saw it, what was, what was your feeling on it? Like, how did you feel about the movie? You know, like, did it bring back some, some memories and, know, of some, of some fellow players and that kind of thing? What was your? The waiting game, I encourage anybody that's been around basketball and has a history of basketball to try and see the movie and help spread the word. because it brings out a history. I mean, and I look at it in a couple of different ways, but I look at it, you know, I've looked at teammates that I played with that are no longer with us. I mean, I can't probably name them all, but, I played with Warren Jabali. I played with Fatty Taylor. I played with Al Smith, Frank Card. the list of players that have passed away that weren't able to get the so-called recognition payments that the NBA came out with. there's that. So I really feel for about the players that I played with that are no longer here and weren't able to see the progress that has been made. But then the other thing that sticks out with the waiting game and what's discussed on that is the is the actual history of the ABA and NBA merger. And well, that's the key is that as you guys know, they you can't really they didn't want to call it a merger. They didn't want to call it a merger. But there was a stipulation agreement in writing that said that any former ABA player that when the ABA came in and I called a merger, but the attorneys didn't want to call the merger. When that happened, any former ABA player that had qualified for a pension It was automatically supposed to carry over to the NBA, whether they ever played a game in the NBA or not. And that's the unfortunate thing that never happened. If that would have happened, we wouldn't be having these discussions that we're having today. And we wouldn't have dropping dimes trying to, well, I'm glad, hopefully they would still be in existence anyway to help. Yeah former players that need some assistance at certain times. We still want the Dropping Dimes Foundation, but everybody that qualified would have received a pension and the NBA and their attorneys didn't see it that way and unfortunately, that it never happens. So and then you and then you saw some guys what before they passed away or and even now still living that needed some assistance and dropping dimes was there to help them with some needed assistance for you know, expenses or whatever that need was. So I, and then the other thing that bothers me is we talked a little bit about it before. The NBA has never officially 100 % recognized the ABA and all the things that the ABA brought to the NBA. And they don't recognize officially the points that were scored in the and to combine ABA and NBA points. They don't recognize they don't talk about. Well, the ABA started the three point All-Star contest. They created the three point line, which now if you watch an NBA game, that's it's all wrapped around shooting three point. And and they don't recognize that the pace of the game. So I have some really mixed emotions. like I said, my family and we were, I obviously didn't make enough money to retire on playing basketball for 13 years, but I was fortunate enough to work for almost 25 years and work enough. to save enough money and have a comfortable life, not an extravagant life, but a comfortable life. And I look at some of the stories that you see in the waiting game that players that really needed some help and that pension could have really helped them out in a crucial time and situation. And I just feel like it should have been done. If they want to call it recognition payments, whatever, but that it should be given to it should be given to the players that earned it and their life would have been a lot better because of it. So I think that the waiting game and getting it out there, I know you've had it out here in Indianapolis. It's been in Phoenix. It's been in Louisville. been back on the East Coast in New Jersey trying to get it shown in some other cities like San Antonio and Denver where the ABA was. And just the more recognition, a notice of how the whole thing transpired. thought that Michael Hussein and his production crew did a great job in promoting. waiting game and getting the word out and then you talk to all the players that went through that and and see what has happened since you know the merger in 75 76 that's a that's a long time ago I'm fortunate enough to be here now but a lot of a lot of interesting stuff that and some of it I agree with some of it I don't Yeah, Dave, I've got to, I've been blessed in order to kind of say this several times, you know, with several of the players that we've had, during that time. But you know, to sit there and watch the waiting game and, and hear about the dropping dimes to say that I wasn't tearing up, man, I'm sitting there crying, watching that movie because with all due respect to you, it's, it's to me and I didn't live it, but, the way I see it outside looking in is it's not, I don't want to say this. It's not the luxurious lifestyle, but that's what the current guys have. It's just the guy that literally needs his dignity. You know, like a, like a, you know, maybe his knee's infected and he can't afford a knee surgery. You know, that's not luxury. That's just living. Like, you know what I mean? And, and what's so cool about it is, is you've got guys that are X, you know, some are still successful, some are financially secure, but it's that brotherhood that really pulls everybody in. I'm telling you, if you haven't watched the movie, watch it. If you haven't looked at dropping dimes, look at it. But I'm, I'm pleading with the audience that we have that, that maybe he's not even involved in basketball. Look into this cause. Cause basically I liken it. I'm a fishing guy. I liken it to a great white shark. That's kind of the biggest baddest. I'm not going to, I'm not going to put the letters out there of which is what. And then you have the ABA. It's like the ABA was, was your ground floor. That's up and down. That's the three point shooting. That's the red and white basketballs. That's the flair. That's the, that's the showmanship. That's the, that's the Showtime Lakers. You know what I mean? Before they were, you know, without the ABA, we don't have the current NBA. I do agree with you. It's kind of a three point shooting match. It's showmanship. I'm not saying they're not phenomenal athletes. I'm saying the skill and the play is different. So I think just fighting for the guy that needs to be able to have a roof over his head. You know, the guy that Uh, all he wants is to have food on the table, you know, to extend his life. And it's just heart wrenching to sit there and think that during those years in which they could have done something, but also to realize that the people were putting their lives on hold for the cause, man, it's just, uh, it's phenomenal being a, being a, know, growing up in Indiana, it's no secret. You know, I played basketball from two years old to 38. So I had a 36 year run. just didn't. You know, not comparing by no means, but I'm saying basketball has been a part of my life and it's cool to see that the epicenter in my opinion is, Indianapolis. I think Indianapolis is putting the cause on the mark. I'm going to let you comment on that a little bit because you're more inside than I am on it. Yeah, I think what you said is right to the point and 100 % true. I give you an example, kind of what you were just talking about with Dropping Dimes. One of the guys in the movie was a teammate of mine with the Pacers briefly. He was only with the team for a year, part of a year or so. Charles Jordan grew up here in Indianapolis went to short which high school was a heck of a player and was fortunate enough to play for the Pacers and then he went overseas and he had he was actually I believe he was assaulted and had some serious wherever he was playing overseas, he was a solid, had some injuries and was never quite the same after that. you know, as Dropping Dimes was created and doing things, he was just at one point, he was just looking for a suit to go to church. Yep. Now you put that in perspective with the players today and if that doesn't hit home then you know I don't know what does because he didn't have the opportunity to play a long time and obviously he has some struggles but it all started with what happened to him in Europe and you know wasn't mentally or physically the same after that and was just Looking for some assistance and as you guys know, there's other stories like that but I think that that that his home and for to basically Like I'm sure you discussed with with Rick Barry and and Neto Bob Nettle lucky This whole thing could be put to bed for five or six million dollars for the agent That was that players that are alive and then continue that played in the NBA and the ABA but also then the remaining players that were just AB but this whole thing could in five or six million dollars that's that's like Compared to normal day life that's like going to Going to the grocery store and buying a bottle of Gatorade Yeah. Right. it's totally like I can't even comprehend when with the new and the new contract that the NBA is going to sign for revenue sharing and their new contracts. You know, we're talking billions and billions of dollars that they're making and we can't just resolve this and and for the sake and for those guys that went through it. for what the ABA has brought to the NBA. Let's all, the players, whether they're ABA or NBA, let's just realize the history and what's gone on and let's get this thing settled. And then dropping dimes are gonna go away and they're still gonna try and, if people are in need, they're still gonna try and raise money and help people in need, but. Bob Costas brought up a great story last night at the dinner that I was at. He became, he's become friends with Freddie Lewis, as you know, played for the Pacers and played for nine. And he never, he never got any money in the NBA. His whole career except one year was in the ABA. So that additional money that he received, for the nine years that he played, helped, you know, like say, we talked about it, it made his life better. Did it make him wealthy for life? No, but it made his life more comfortable and livable. And that's all we want. That's all anybody wants is to try and live a comfortable life. you know, and so it's interesting. was like Jason was saying, if, for, for our audience, if you haven't seen the movie, you got to see it. One thing Michael, and I think Scott said also was that it's not really a movie about basketball. I mean, you don't, if, even if you're not a basketball fan, it is definitely worth a watch because the whole point of it is, is awareness. And you know, like I know that I can speak for myself personally before, I guess Bob was probably the first person that we talked to, to where I even knew about, the Dropping Dimes Foundation. That was about a year ago. And since then, you know, the more, the more that I've learned, it's just, you you think, you think that if someone played professional basketball, they played professional basketball, you know, and it just all equals the same thing. You don't think that there would ever be a professional basketball player that would be homeless or that would, that would need, you know, that would be hungry or would need a suit for church, you know, like you just don't think that those things happen. So I think the more people that see this, you know, I think that the, the, the more that this has brought to light, that's going to put pressure on the powers that be, you know, to, make this come, this thing come about. And like you said, I think they mentioned it in the movie, but just the charitable donations that the NBA gives away each year is infinitely more than what would put this to bed. Yeah, or how about the the fines that they get from, you know, technicals or, you know, you're you did something wrong and you can't play for 10 games or whatever that that pool of money. That's a big pool of money, too. And like you say, charitable donations, the fines. And that's not even going into their revenue stream of their television contract or anything like that. So I don't know. To me, going through it at the time that this all happened and the merger happened, to me, the NBA, the powers to be, never have officially realized and recognized how important the influence was. of the ABA and what it brought to the table at a crucial time when neither, as we talked earlier, neither league was on real solid ground. But the entertainment and the pace of the game and everything that's happened, they never, it's like they think it's the NBA. Well, I think the ABA has something to do with that. Yeah. The, the comment that I wanted to make at the movie that I didn't give it a chance because they gave the mic to the crowd is, is I know we're in Pacers territory and I know we're going to get booed for saying this, but these guys are trailblazers up here. Right? Cause you have, you guys were the trailblazers, not the team, not to confuse anybody. You're the trailblazers because you're setting that bar to allow it to rise without that bar, without that, you know, four minute mile. that everybody busted after that person got it, you know, that's, that's not established. So let me ask you a question here in the, in the thread of mosaic. So a mosaic actually intertwines two or three things together and kind of meets in the middle. So in the thread of the mosaic, let me ask you this question. I think it's very easy to look at a scoreboard when you've played in a game in high school, college, ABA and NBA. I could go through every game and quickly formulate how many wins, how many losses you have. What does a win look like for you with the combination of the waiting game, the dropping dimes, and just how your fraternity of brotherhood that you have in professional basketball? What does a win look like for you maybe in the next five years? Well, like I said, we talked about it somewhat already, but the win to me in the next five years would be in my hope and brotherhood with talking to other the ABA players that I have an opportunity to talk to. Some went on to the NBA. Some weren't fortunate enough to be able to be a part of the merger and didn't go into the NBA. But my hope would be like we talked about that the ABA is recognized and we come and this has to happen through the Players Association, the NBA Players Association, and the NBA Retired Players Association coming to understand the history of basketball and what went on with the ABA and the NBA and the merger. And then get that word spread to the NBA front office. And my hope would be that the, you know, the money that we're talking about, it's kind of a two-way street for me. It's like the money would be nice. In my particular situation, it's not going to affect my quality of life. But it would be nice. But there are, you know, everybody would benefit or profit in one way or another, maybe to some higher extent than others, to receive that additional income and then keep dropping dimes as important and at the front five years and from now as it is now and continue that what they want to accomplish. and continued to do that. So that would be my dream. it's like I say, it's not so much monetary it is, it's just people understanding how important and what the ABA brought to the NBA. And then realize that there is in every walk of life, there are people that have had some, I think, You I think both you and me. I mean, I know I've had some struggles in my life. I'm sure you guys best struggle in your life and you overcome them by working hard you overcome that by relying on friendships and people that you know are there for you and and we know that dropping dimes is there for former ABA players and I just would hope over the these next few years and the sooner the better that the NBA recognizes the history and everything that's gone into this. And it's not like we're looking for publicity. The Dropping Guns Foundation or the ABA employers were not looking for the publicity. We're just trying to accomplish what should have happened in 1975 and 1976 and then we wouldn't have be having these discussions. So that's my hope is it's one of being proud to play in the ABA knowing the history of the ABA knowing the friendships that I've been able to make the great players coaches and what they brought to the game. And then went on and a lot of them went on to the NBA and brought their skills to the NBA. Let's all be a brotherhood and get this thing put to bed. Yeah, with, with a big smile on my face, tell you something. talked to my dad, with all due respect to you, my dad's exact same age as you give or take a year. when he mentioned Adolf Rupp, when he mentioned that he knew who you were, cause I loaded in and I said, Hey, we're going to talk to somebody you've known. And I'm trying to get his mind moving, you know, a little bit. And I mentioned your name and I'm going to be honest with you. He had to think just for a minute because that could be anybody. It could be sports. It could be musical. Just cause he knows the guests we have on all sports related, but the fact that he knew who you were and some stuff about him and some of the anecdotes you've come up with, he kind of was aware of that. That to me was a fun conversation on the way over to Nick's house that I had from a playing field over here to Greenwood having that. So I want to tip my cap for saying, Hey, thanks for being that pioneer. Thanks for your humility. And more importantly, I had, I had fun, you know, it's. History lessons, a little too strong. think I'm making it too simple, but just do what's right. You know, that's, that's all we're asking for is do what's right. It's a, you know, kind of, kind of like the guy that deserves something that, maybe just needs a little rust or, knocked off or just a little encouragement or just, you know, a sense of, Hey, you know, I did this, this is what I've done, you know, and it, and it's, you gotta have the first few chapters in a book for a, for a complete book. You know what I mean? And it's just, I think any, any little bit helps any little bit of communication and, it's just kind of fighting that giant. It's a, it's, it's a fight worth, worth fighting for. It's, it's grassroots. I mean, it has everything in it and just, just do what's right. You know, that's, that's the biggest thing I'll leave with. Yep. I think, yeah, just in closing out, I couldn't agree more. There's a strong history, a lot of great friendships, a lot of great memories. And like, I think the phrase that we can leave with is let's just do what's right. Let's just get it done and do what's right. So we got the we got the waitinggamemovie.com that's where you can go to find out where to watch the waiting game and you can also I believe pay to stream it right there on the website. We have droppingdimesfoundation.org I believe is the website for dropping dimes or you can just search dropping dimes foundation find out a little bit more about them make a donation to that. Dave where can people find you if or do you want to be found? Well, like we talked about, my technology skills are not very good. you know, if people want to check my history out, I mean, like you guys did, I mean, go to the web and check me out. But if somebody's, you know, I you can you can, know, you can share my my email address if somebody wants to get in touch with me. Yeah, you know, phone. mean, I have no problem giving phone numbers out to guys like you, but let's let's be little while. But. Yeah, but. on back in 1973 with you? Hey, I want it. I want to, I want to leave you with this man. from a guy that's played basketball in a silo from a guy that's paid and, moved hay off to the side to shoot and, and in indoor gyms during the winter. it's a privilege to get the walk in your shoes for just a few minutes, you know, and, kind of see, you know, The pioneer is a relative term, just a lay in the ground floor, you know, learning the history. Anytime you get to talk to a guy, top 10 Kansas scoring history. mean, that gets cold chills. You know what I mean? Cause I've been in the story. And since a young guy grew up in Indiana, Northern Indiana, and, it's just great to be able to talk with someone, talk cause talk, what's right. And, at the end of the day, you know, basketball is the common thread. What do they say? Nick is it a. In 49 other states, it's basketball, but this is Indiana, I believe is how it goes. So, uh, we're glad to have you back in central Indiana, man. It's a booming place. It's, um, it, it's kind of a, it's a kind of a hybrid between fast growing and still Midwest values. And I kind of like that. Um, I'm not going to talk politics, but I think conservative and wanting our country to thrive and survive, I think is the common thread in the area. And, You know, you go downtown and you can watch high school basketball, college basketball, pro basketball, know, NCAA is there. So I think in Annapolis has a lot to offer. So tip my cap to you once again. And it was nothing but a pleasure. Hopefully you had a good time and you did a good job and it was, it was interesting talking to you. Well, I appreciate it. I enjoyed the time with both of you and we'll continue to spread the word. if you, you know, feel you guys know where I'm at and you live, I live right here in Westfield. So. If you have the urge or need me for something, just reach out and I'd be, if you know, I given that I'm not out of town or whatever, but I'd be more than happy to reach out at any time. But it's, it's been a, it's been a great conversation and I enjoyed it immensely. Yep. Hey, thanks a lot, Dave. Hey, if you don't mind, if I'm going to stop the recording, if you could hang out for just a second, it's going to finish up.