Fork, Knife, & Banter | Culinary Conversation Amongst Friends | Episode 56

In this episode, hosts Nick and Jason reconnect with their friends and culinary experts, Matthew Gray and Jared Gleaton, for an in-depth discussion about the current state of restaurant culture and food critique. This episode is packed with lively debates, humorous insights, and thoughtful commentary on topics such as:

• The Evolution of Dining: Exploring how ambiance, service, and culinary quality shape our dining experiences.
• Tipping Culture: A critical look at the modern tipping system and its impact on both diners and restaurant staff.
• Food Critique: Debates on traditional American steak culture versus international culinary excellence, including discussions on steak, tartare, and more.
• Personal Anecdotes: From near-miss kitchen mishaps to the real-life stories behind memorable meals, our guests share experiences that are as educational as they are entertaining.

Guest Profiles:

• Matthew Gray – A seasoned food critic and the voice behind the podcast 50 Tastes of Gray. His sharp insights and passion for culinary arts add depth to every discussion.
• Jared Gleaton – The creative mind behind the book A Feast for the Senses – The Psychological Art of Eating Well. Jared brings a unique perspective on fine dining and everyday culinary delights.

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Transcript

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as you bite into it an eruption of flavor from the champagne and butter mixes with a lobster and it gives way to Middle notes of beautiful toasted coconut and sweet and notes of custardy passion fruit that just erupts in your mouth as your toes curl from a new experience as you enjoy each bite and form new memories of something wonderful just glad that the camera cuts off at our waist that's all I'm gonna say exactly exactly guys I'm happy I'm happy that we did this in this format I'll tell you one word not to use when it comes to describing food moist yeah that's that seems to be a across the board not not good word okay steak is the most overrated thing that we produce in the restaurant and it really is not as good quality as other things on that menu I love steak but but I agree no you just you just defended steak wait a second I need I AG I stop and oh but do you like if if you were king of the world and you could just say okay this is how we're going to do things what would be your solution with with the restaurant I'm not even king of my household um it's good to be king welcome to Mosaic Minds the podcast where every episode is a colorful blend of perspectives ideas and conversation each week our diverse team of posts brings their unique backgrounds experiences and interests to the table Mosaic Minds is your invitation to join the conversation to see the world through a kaleidoscope of viewpoints so grab a seat tune in and let the Mosaic unfold before you cool beautiful I never do inos on my show yeah sometimes I do but that's really more just to make the guests think that we're you know we have our stuff together little do they little do they know James Beard is the uh Oscars of the food industry I'd say these all like four four five star restaurant kind of things or some of them just kind of like you know more casual or the James Beard award is typically related to the chefs more so than the establishment would you say that's correct Jared that yes that's correct it's it's one of those deals where there used to be a diamond guide and and four and five stars used to be pretty big again I think that those guides have slowly faded out to whenever you hear four or five stars it's more or less and I hate to say it Google and Yelp has taken over those and so when it comes to Stars the the premier star seems to be uh Michelin which is one out of three um but I would say that yeah it would be four or five star places it if if what you're thinking of is old school way of of of doing it it's just one of those weird things where uh the the am I right Matt The Diamond guy was the big one for a long time with those Stars it really was but I don't think they had the money to Market themselves as much as the Michelin people no does anybody remember zagit yeah yeah the zag award yeah yeah zag zagit fell to the Wayside and they rebranded as something called the infatuation and they don't they don't do their scores anymore I also say they're the rumor is they're very pay to play a lot of the people that they're supportive for their advertising goes through through the infatuation these days so not the maybe the most credible uh that's the rumor I have no proof other than here say right gotcha yeah and here nowadays post um the beginning of the internet I think things really change because everything is marketed and played through through the web and so you know you've got like Jared said you have the um what do you have the what's the name of it the um the one that does all the reviews with people that Yelp and so on yeah yel I'm not a big believer in that I think that Jared probably isn't either I'm not you know Yelp we got a restaurant here in Tulsa that got top 100 restaurants on Yelp and it's a big deal and I'm so happy for them and I you know one of those weird moments where I actually agree I think that they're one one of the best restaurants in Tulsa for what they do but it's it's an unusual situation in that they have a sandwich um the best sandwich I've ever wrapped my lips around it's a paga sandwich but every Tuesday he closes his his shop down and then you it's a chef's table where you sit where he preps his food and watch them create a dinner for you and it's it's akin to what upper and restaurants offer and it's a quality of those upper end restaurants so it's one of those deals where people a lot of people say well it's just a sandwich he's much more than just a sandwich that's yeah that's funny you say that cuz we I've never done this before but last night we went we celebrated our Valentine's Day last night because we both had to work on Saturday so we went out last night to a place called Vino it's a new uh Italian place on Massachusetts Avenue is our that's like our art district here in Indianapolis so it's on the Art District and all that but yeah they put us right there they didn't have any like regular tables available and they're like well you can either wait for one or we can put you right here um at the uh kitchen so like they put us right there in front of the kitchen and we got to we get to sit there we were away from everyone else it was great you know got to watch the watch the um Cooks back there and it was really cool was the food any different than what you normally get as far as the food goes it was amazing yeah I got the chicken marsala she got um what did she get oh she got the scallops yeah it very it was very good of course you know like I don't usually upscale for me is like you know um well that's not true but I was just going to say Red Lobster that's not true but like you know but red upscale for me is not usually like you know some obscure place I just tried to find something that I hadn't heard of before so Red Lobster I'm leaving I figured I got a quick story for you guys that I'm proud of so there's a local place called the yummy bow and it's a kind of a mandarin theme and uh you go get your bowl and then you kind of tailor make it however you want so you got your noodle base you got your you know your standard stuff and um I was cracking up because my dad has very little choices in the small town that he lives in as far as like what I would consider to be a little bit exotic uh you can have a calamari for instance that's not a you can't you can't order that in the town he's from so he makes the comment he's like a guy could come up here and just kind of fill up on the sushi and it was funny because I'm not going to throw a price out but it was uh it was pricey for one Sushi and then they had the little flowers and the stuff to make it look even nicer than what it was but it was so funny that he said that because I'm like yeah a guy could a guy could also spend $120 $150 on two plates but he was uh it was so cool and then we went out for ice cream afterwards at the um Nick what's that place called uh Coldstone Creamery do you guys have those you heard of those sure yeah we did like the apple pie you already know how I feel about ice cream I'm sure we had to walk three miles just to get back to calories so hey I got something kind of fun for you guys I want to give you guys an opportunity in the two areas that you're in uh introduce to the audience first off where you're at uh throw out an off thee beaten path maybe an under publicized place local to you and then explain maybe the cuisine that you think uh is noteworthy at that place I'm going to start with Jared and then Matt I'm going to ask you the same question so uh here in Tulsa there it's it's starting to get traction so whenever you say it it's not off the beaten path off the beaten path can be a little difficult because we do have there's two I'm going to mention so I'm I'm a hog I'm going to go overboard first is the Living Kitchen and it is in the Pew Oklahoma it's run by Lisa beckin she's up for a James Beard award for best chef United States and she has a portfolio of three restaurants that are all high high level at different price points and different experiences but executed at the same level of Excellence which I think is particularly difficult to do when one place let alone three and it's about you know 20 25 people can go out there it's in De Oklahoma a little small town less than maybe 200 people I think and you have it's a drive and you go down a dirt road that's a quarter of a mile and um it's a little log cabin and she brings out food that where she's forged and grown the vegetables and Infuse the land and it it's an incredible dining experience um that she offers but the other one is uh I'm going to give a little love to a a little chocolate shop called cricet and fig at Tulsa Oklahoma and um I've learned that chocolate true artisanal chocolate small bat chocolate is a science and an art where they pour the mold everything has to be done at a certain time at a certain temperature or you've lost your batch and you have to start over and he's doing chocolates there and you can order them online he's doing chocolates that rival dandelion actually he was part of the Advent calendar for dandelion out in California and even Kaka and caman I think that he is on that level and can easily compete flavor-wise because he is not skimping on the ingredients he uses valona chocolates a special blend that he works with valona to get from them and the man is a wizard and the chocolates are ratable are they just called chocolateers or is there like a like a fancy name for them okay chocolateers Cricket fig um and it's it's one of those deals where he's trained by the The Culinary Institute of America CIA of America so it's it's not like he's not a a chef he he makes a really good burger he knows how to make risotto he makes good brownies but is one of those things that we take for granted you know we we have Hershey's we have Russell Stover we have dear Deli that we think of or and we and we think of the fancy one gadiva you know remember when gadiva was all age this this man is above gadiva he is in that realm of of J Torres or Christopher Elbow and those are some of the better ones in the united cities does he do the different kinds like is there like dark milk white all that or is it just pretty much one okay whiskey beeswax um Irish Cream he does a peanut butter Sparkle where uh you bite into it it's milk chocolates and it's in a pyramid shape and it's Pop Rocks but it's peanut butter and it's milk chocolate and so you have different senses you hear the Rocks going off in your ears you feel it on your tongue and it's it's truly incredible and I haven't come across something quite like that outside of just sweet pop rock you know handy um he's got really incredible flavors he's got the Dubai power he did the viral Dubai bar molded into Hearts but the Dubai bar is not they're not all created equal but neither is chocolate where he's got a good ratio where the the filling is soft and crunchy and nutty um the man's the man's brilliant so for the listeners we exp and for me we explained duai uh du bar sure du bar has got um pistachio I believe it's got oh what is that Matthew can you help me it's it's Middle Eastern it's it's like the phoo that's that's that's almost like a pasta that's deep fried or what is that the shredded fough yes you know what let me let me actually look it up so I can be as technical as possible ingredients tahini pistachios rosew water high quality chocolates it also comes with um oh what is it I'm trying to find what that pastry a KFI pastry KFI um it's really crispy and crunchy it's almost like little thin noodle pastry it's delicious sometimes I I look at YouTube and I watch the the guys in Istanbul making all those pastries just hours of them just creating these wonderful baklavas and the things that you're talking about Jared it's just amazing it is it is didn't you say that you said when you were on before that you did the whole Andrew Zimmerman experience kind of thing like you said you went to some of these different places and tried some of these uh foods that other people would be like is he you know why is he eating that wasn't that you or was that you Jared it it it wasn't me to that extent okay okay nor me although Jared and I are probably eaten quite a lot and in many many places but I don't think that that was my threat maybe we just talking about the show that might but I've had calf fries the the one thing that the only food that I have come across that I cannot do again is um bird's nest Koreans bird's nest and that is made from the vomit of birds along with um so is that dude is an thing or the texture you know you have a a half-developed animal so it's not just that you're eating and the texture wasn't there the flavor wasn't there um it just did not Jive but I have to say it's a beautiful culinary creation it just was not something I could do again it defeated me um is it popular maybe um like Foodies I should say have you had it Matthew have I think it was popular maybe more Once Upon a Time than it is currently yeah yeah what did you think sh fin you know I'm not a fan of that stuff but I have to eat it or at least try it throughout my life so I've tried all those things but some of those things you just don't want to go for because it's just like an ethical reason why you don't want to have shark spin or you don't want to have the bird's nest stuff or whatever so or belut here is popular mhm that's the Filipino right bit is a uh uh an unfertilized duck egg have you had that it's big in the Filipino um I haven't had but I've had I've heard people in from the Philippines talk about it and I was like really yeah so it's it's kind of gross to the American sensibility but it's something that's really really popular there and so it's it's a duck egg with the embryo inside so it's not like an egg like you and I know about it which is you break an egg open and there's white and there's a yolk here it's sort of like almost like a semi hatched embryo and um very very popular and uh I think that it would throw off a lot of a lot of us a lot of people who would tried for the first time if you could even get that far Matthew send to the audience real quick here where you're located at geographically and then I'm going to throw that same question out at you give me one or two off the beaten path was the wrong long term but I'll I'll just turn it over to you he's even got the license plate there this this is my former license plate for my tour company called Hawaii food tourist and so yeah I'm in Hawaii Honolulu to be exact and it's a very exotic place here Jared have you been here I have not I've always wanted to go and guys have you been here haven't Jason have not so what's really interesting is when you come here it's it's very foreign it's got a lot of Asian Sensibility so a lot of Chinese a lot of Japanese uh a lot of the countries from Southeast Asia so the population is by far more of them than it is of us and so you get to really Delight in in the the wonderful aspects of their cultures and Cuisines and that's why Honolulu is so interesting because you can have stuff that you may never have tried before and see fruits and vegetables that you maybe never have seen before and so the flavors and the tastees the cultures the languages and the history is just amazing so here you have the the same kind of restaurants you have in the mainland where you guys are but here you can also have uh Malaysian and Chinese and Vietnamese and you can walk into noodle factories where they're doing rice noodles and they're making it by hand like they used to do it a hundred years ago and so we don't have these big mechanized well I guess we do have big mechanized organized the kind of uh food manufacturers but you also have the mom and pop places where you walk in you see people with their sleeves rolled up and they're making rice noodles by hand and they put in these big giant bamboo steamers and it's just an amazing site so a lot of that stuff you just can't see around the country anymore but here in Honolulu it's still going so you can walk in and and get a little tour of of the Noodle Factory and try stuff that's being made right then and there and it's way different than the foods from the mainland and I think it's really neat when people come here when we were doing the Hawaii Food Tours we' take people out all day long so we'd feed educate and entertain people while we walk them through the town and so it's a really kind of fascinating way to get a glimpse of how food used to be done so the question I have for both of you and I get to crack my Knuckles because I think this is an interesting question but of course I'm the guy asking it right so uh talk to me a little bit about the Ambiance versus the food so like Jared I'm going to use you as an example I don't want to throw out cost because I'm not in that real but it looks like to me some of the small desserts you have would cost more than maybe a meal in Indiana with all due respect to you but talk to me a little bit of how Ambiance kind of adds to the experience that you're having or maybe a very average place that you really like the atmosphere couple of things that I have a couple of there's there's a couple things to unpack there the first thing is we can talk about quality over quantity it depends on where you put your value it depends on your uprating it depends on what you see cost as to how full you get afterwards it also depends on your pallet what is the goal is the goal for nourishment or is the goal to be full at the end or to enjoy each bite and have the experience the thing about a lot of those small plates that you have that you see me is I'm not ordering them individually they're usually part of exactly what you experience for Valentine's Day a five qu prefixed dinner and where the court you know people say that's $100 that's ridiculous and they're all small well if you think about if it's a 2-hour meal the food is being brought out to you systematically you're going to get full because you're not consuming everything in one bite in a few first few minutes and that's what we as Americans do and so if you can get past the mindset of I'm not getting this big plate immediately you're probably going to be full at the end for that and you're it's not going to be too far off of what you would pay at say a Texas Roadhouse to some extent is it going to be the exact same amount of food absolutely not it's going to be less food but it's going to be a higher quality with higher ingredients that's probably in some ways healthier for you than the baked potato and steak with maybe a not dairy butter provided um the butter that comes from the cinnamon sugar cow you know like that kind yes from from the plants it's you know and that's that's what a lot of that's Mar margarine is a plant-based product we don't think of that um but how does the atmosphere play a role well it depends on what you're looking for in your dining experience if somebody is predisposed to have high anxiety from loud places or from crowded places you walk into a restaurant I don't care how fancy it is and nice but they're over stimulating overwhelmed the food is going to take a back seat to their fight or flight Mo be activated from that yep like that and the same thing goes for if you go to a restaurant and you're if even if it's doesn't feel is loud but if you're less than a 2 ft away from the next Table and there conversation intrudes onto you then the experience is R for you even if you're not really thinking about it it's still intrusive and it's going to make you feel little uncomfortable and it's going to impact the overall experience the classic thing is if somebody mentions the atmosphere that means they took their focus off the food and that's what they're left with rather than the food over the atmosphere very good answer Matt kind of Follow that up well I think it depends a lot on what your goals are and what your intentions are if you a restaurant critic like Jared is you're probably focusing on the entire experience from the time that you arrive to the way that you're greeted to the way that they bring your glasses to your table are they holding it like this and if they are you should probably leave um you know there's there's a lot of things to be focusing on and if you're a regular person and you go to a restaurant and let's say it's a fancy place and you're trying to impress your date that's one thing if you're looking for great food that's another thing so if if I'm into wanting a seduction dinner for my date I'm not going to take them out I'm going to bring them to my house because being a chef I can do that kind of thing you go very smoo if I if I want the the bells and the whistles and the and and all of that stuff do you go to a fancy place and um people like doing that that and and being surrounded by by that kind of an environment uh I think it all depends on what you want you know the places you can go just to eat and you know the places where you're going to put the food into maybe second place because the Ambiance is going to be killer and so it's interesting when a restaurant can match high level of both Quality Art service and all of the various factors that go into running a fine restaurant but there's something interesting and I wanted to ask Matthew about this and it's little phenomenon cuz I was having dinner with the chef and I was noticing this is going to get loud quick but there's a phenomenon that happens that if the place is loud around you it it's almost like all the conversations are drowned out and it's loud but you can still only truly hear the convers ation between you and the person even though it's loud because the just noise in the background is not discernable and my reply was I have ADHD I'm absolutely fearing the person right there I'm getting picks offed here and this and here and so it really just depends on how you can also tune out as well but it Matthew hit it on the tail it's it's what the experience that you're looking for it there was a conversation and it was based on big Awards and the conversation was whenever they were describing this this Chef is incredible they're doing incredible things it's it's Tex Max it's it's absolutely wonderful and they said it's Unapologetic it's it's loud food it's it's just a fun atmosphere and I thought to myself just the psychologist of me a thought sounds a lot of fun but someone could phrase that a little bit different obnoxious fousy uncomfortable don't really care about the food and I was just thinking it's all about how you pres the person interprets it presents the experience to another and that's where I think whenever you're doing food critiques that those things should be taken into consideration where it was loud but maybe you should put a caveat to that it's loud comma this is what the is that what the intent of the restaurant is to be because if you go to a restaurant and it's well we have an open bar we want it to be fun and and and festive and and social then it should you shouldn't really dock it for being loud because guess what that's what they're going for that's what people are going to be Nick Nick there's actually a place here locally about 2 miles from here Johnny Torinos I believe it's an Italian eery yeah I've been there uh they actually have a curtain to where you can sit and kind of have a private date within the restaurant actually okay I haven't seen that if you ask them they're kind of an elevated on a you know two feet off the normal floor and you get to kind of have your own I don't know room within a room so the question I have for both of you that um I'm going to queue it up and just uh be throwing it out there right so I'm not I'm not you're high and eery guy right it's not by choice it's more by uh the time that it takes I I won't go into this too much but the um the cooking your own uh little bits and stuff fondue fondue not a good experience there when I had to cook my own with all respect would love fondue if somebody else was preparing it and bringing it out but me having to cook was just too much work so here's the question I have I go with each of you to uh an establishment in your own States I'm going to start with Matthew and I'm sitting down with you and I'm a little nervous because there's too many silverware here I'm a Midwest I'm not a hick but I'm more hick than than higher class restaurant type guy how am I going to feel comfortable how are you going to make make it to where it's a great experience and I don't feel the whole time I'm I'm nervous when I'm using the wrong utensils and kind of going out work so Matthew have fun with have fun with that question hopefully Jason you know me I'm going to make you feel comfortable and it doesn't matter whether you're the redneck you are or whether you're you know you're a high-end sophisticated dude it's like I embrace people I make you feel comfortable I'll educate you a little bit tell you a little bit and then we'll just roll our sleeves up and we'll eat doesn't matter if you hold the fork right or wrong exactly exactly love it love it I'm going take a little different approach I'm going say let's get you a drink first first there you go let's get you a drink first if if you gave me that profile I'm going to ask I'm going to not just say let's let's get drunk but I'm going to say why we start off with the drink and we can get into that because then I want to get you in your environment and I would probably before we even start say would you like to start with drink or would you like this to be dry so I know the boundaries and the first thing that I that I think of is is we're overthinking it already you know what start on the outside and go in the first dish grab the fork on the outside grab the spoon on the outside you see that spoon at the top that's for the very end don't even don't even worry about it it's there and that is how I would do it and you know what if you didn't follow that there's not a single person in that restaurant I don't care if it's a Michelin quality restaurant that's going to sit say anything it's one of those deals where the thought the psychological thought that you've put in your mind is putting up a barrier of Entry to something that might have been more important in the 1800s and I assure you was no longer important anymore it's one of those deals is if you want to partake in it outside in friend let's have a drink and let's relax or England exactly that's a great point you know Jason you're my friend and you're their customer there's nothing wrong with either one of those things 100% agree and I I'm one of those guys that I think I'd be intimidated a little bit but when it comes down to it are you really going to judge me I mean we had a good time we had a good conversation we like the food we leave and we're jovial you know the rest of the night or just have a good time and and go do you know a second activity or whatever so I I I appreciate that that was that was a cool answer it's so funny that you bring up the little mini forks and everything so when we were at that restaurant last night when uh Nadia got the scallops she got that little um I don't know what it's called but that little tiny Fork prick or like you know what I'm talking about the little uh Pitchfork looking thing that's really itty bitty and so I'm just like we're just going to ask her what it's for you know so we asked the wait we asked the waitress we're like what what exactly is this for and she's like to be honest I don't ever see anybody use that we're just required to give them when we do any kind of seafood you know what I mean I think it's more for like uh like oysters and things like that I don't know but we treat it as a souvenir next to take a selfie with it that's one of those things is the the fork that you you describe I'm thinking of exactly what you said oysters maybe crab did you have crab we didn't have crab I don't know why was the scallop in a shell it wasn't that's what I was so confused about it was like I I think it was just a little like you know tradition novelty kind of thing I don't know then then I don't know it probably is novelty you know appearances are all the bells and whistles for that but let's let's go back to the to the barrier ventry here and talk about um the fondue you can't make so what is what is the barrier to entry to making that fondue at home what are your thoughts at home I think that's what you said isn't it Jason I think you saiding about going to a restaurant my experience was in La Hoya California okay okay and uh pretty high in them and there's $15 million homes that are not not Bragg homes I'm just going to say that out loud and we were up on a second deck my only complaint was is I'm not proud to see this but I'm a big eater so it seems like I was just kind of picking at food and it took a really long time but I I want to change tones here if they would have brought the food out to me each little step of the way every 15 minutes different experience too much work for me to have to turn it do this cool it down do this to be honest with you it wasn't the food and it wasn't the quantity and it wasn't the experience it was just the fact that I felt like man I did a lot of work here to pay to pay x amount and and it wasn't even all that expensive but that's just my personal if you do the same thing and present it to me much higher grade probably an additional star for me than than the you know the middle of the road probably three star experience that I had but you now know what fondue is whenever they say it's a fondue place exactly the same thing happens if they do chocolate they bring out chocolate afterwards or was it chees Turtle uh they did like the pineapples and you cooked it and then they brought the chocolate drizzle on top and then it was kind of a combination so it was it was good there hey so let me live like curiously through you guys real quick here so you have you have X amount of days in a month or x amount of um let's just say procedures or things you're trying to do how do you maybe select I'm going to start with Matthew here how do you actually select the places that you actually go and review versus the ones that hey I just got to I just got to casually uh pass on on this opportunity go ahead when I was writing restaurant reviews for the hu advertis in newspaper I would choose restaurants that uh would either be deserving of a review because they hadn't been reviewed in quite a Time quite a long time and and then you have the high-end places who believe that their stuff don't stink and so I sometimes had to bring him down to earth and then there would be the mom and pop places which I never wrote anything really negative about Mom and Pops because the power of a reviewer can bring down a restaurant and I'm not here to hurt anybody but I'm here to protect your hard-earned dollars so I can give you a road map as to where I think your money would be well spent for good food good experience or a combination of the two and so uh that's how I would choose it and so I had the ability to be able to choose my own places I didn't have to go to an editor and ask because they trusted me uh I don't know how Jared makes his decisions but I'd be interested to know why well Greg Segway by the way Greg said way great it's like you have a podcast or something you know it's uh you know it started out as is my one of my comfort zone was initially just fine dining because my background with food was primarily fine dining but it evolved from there into having a deep appreciation of it doesn't matter if it's fine dining or not a person in a food truck has the capability of perfecting their craft just as much as Grant AET of lyia does for theirs is it the same thing absolutely not that's not what I'm saying but a sandwich can be perfect sandwich the height of Sandwich whereas Gran AET you could have a strawberry tastes like a tomato and that's the height of perfection for what they're trying to do so I eventually went from um fine dining hitting up most of the fine dining places in Tulsa hitting up what a lot of people would tout as the best so I went to initially used Google and Trip Advisor to figure out what was considered the best and that is what drove it is if people are saying this is so good let's let's put a a different lens on it and so from there I started to try different things and I really like to hit up the new places especially if it's associated with um locally run establishments like we have with something called the mcnell group I want to try all of their restaurants they have a portfolio of 20 restaurants or Hal Smith or like Lisa beckin like I was talking about that's sort of what drove my me going to those areas right now um it's the James Beard awards if you're nominated I plan on doing a review of that restaurant the difference is um I feel that if I have an intention of going to a place and reviewing it since I've reviewed other places with the same intend and follow through the re through with the review um I should put on the same critiquing legs and still write the review I think that I absolutely agree with Matthew that we do have the power to harm business but I I'll say this two of my worst reviews this year drove that company to have and when I say worst that they got the lowest score people flocked to that place in defense because they love that place so much so in some ways it's still does not change my opinion so I think it depends on what is the intent of the reviewer what is the tone and are they being consistent across critiques yeah and they made up their game too you know yes and so I think what's the what the most biggest ethical issue that I've ran into for myself is whenever my experience does not align with what the the society really if they really love or dislike the place or if they've been nominated for a big award and it you know from Through My Lens it's not at that award level but then that has come into I don't want to say I've still published but it has kept me up S thinking is this going to harm them is this honest did I miss something and in the end I realize if you are true to yourself if you're intend is to be honest just like Matthew said you have money to spend if they have a following it's not going to hurt their following if they can produce the food that's better than what I experienced then maybe I'll go back and so probably not a good idea to to review your enemy right probably not the best idea well because I know you have so many enemies Jared you know well I I I reviewed a restaurant in Tulsa that had a 990,000 follower um 95,000 followers and now I don't post on that page anymore because the the it was did I put on the same lens as I did anything else but they the the community was very ugly about the situation yeah I think I think that's why Nick and I look forward to talking to you guys and I can see why your friends is there's a fine line between skewering somebody right but there's also the honesty Integrity thing like both of you have given me specific examples separately about hey everybody's saying this is a you know a five star but it was kind of a 3.8 for me or you know what whatever the case I'm just throwing out numbers there but I think that's that's cool to see because honesty honesty trumps anything right in life and business and in restaurants and things like that um what do you think what do you think separates um maybe a great experience of somewhere that you've never heard of or has a very little press but you go in there and maybe it's just a five star and you're like man how is how how is nobody really heard of this or how have just a few thousand people heard of it Matthew I know you've got some unique uh I don't want to say places but not only places geographically you know you've got a lot of that so maybe maybe uh mention mention mention one by name if you don't mind just to get them a little you know a a boost or just a mention as far as places that I think are not getting enough traction or enough recognition you go in there and you're like wow why why aren't thousands of people talking about this this is unbelievable what's one of those places that you may be have you know here because it's such a small uh geographical Zone that and it's so tourist tourism related that most of the people who are doing good work are getting plenty of action and they're getting plenty of word of mouth so it's a little bit different here and that's based on the geography than than it would be in any other big city so there are no places that I would really really highlight that I think that's not getting enough attention or enough play in in the uh in the neighborhood so yeah I would have to pass on that one because I think that the good people are getting uh a lot of attention here rookie Geographic question for you based on where you're at um and I'm not trying to Butch this but I'm going to try to do as best I can so Island a versus Island B versus Island C are there unique differences like if I go from a B to C or are they all kind of I'll just be quiet and let you I let the expert talk on that Jason I love the way that you pre-apologize before you lay out any question let me just see got to go B right right uh where I'm at is the New York City of Hawaii aahu is where you have the Lion Share of the population you have the highest end hotels enter entainment it's the Hollywood it's the New York as you go into other neighbor Islands it's more of a relaxed environment um maybe a little bit less sophisticated and that kind of thing so that is probably the best way to respond to that so when people come to Hawaii if they ask me what's the best way to do it I always say come here first and then as you uh go through your vacation you can wind down a little bit and end up relaxing at the end nice so in my past life I think I told both you guys this I was a I was a bartender so in that time period you know like we we and servers work off of tips you know what I mean that's a obviously that's most of our of our income so something I've noticed recently and uh we were talking about it just last night is great idea whoever came up with this but the when you when you swipe your card or you plug your card in now instead of asking how much you want to tip they have options you know like it automatically figures up you know like in this place it was three different options they got 20% Which I love how they put that on the low end that's awesome so they have 20% 25% and 30% right and you don't want to be the guy that s that clicks on other and and puts zero or whatever you know or $ five or you know unless I guess unless it's warranted so how do you guys feel about that I mean like what when it comes to tipping and things like that how do you guys feel about that I've I've got a lot of strong opinions about tipping I think it's a really messed up thing here the Tipping culture in the United States is really messed up and restaurants are leading the way and as a person who's owned restaurants been a chef at restaurants and has also worked the front of the house I think it's an entirely awkward and out ofpl thing that's going on right now when you confront uh a guest with here's how much you should tip us or you're not going to get what you want unless you tip us and things like that when tips first came about historically um the word tips is kind of an anagram I guess is that the word to ensure proper service is what that meant so you would pay out a couple of dollars before your meal and that would be so to make sure it's like you're buying them off a little bit service to get a good table that kind of thing yeah but nowadays it's like they walk up to your table they they don't really know anything about the food the way it was cooked where it was sourced anything and then they expect to get tipped so and the restaurant owners are complicit in this because not only are they not training their people properly and the people are expecting to get tips but it's just it's just an out ofpl thing that I think begins with each of the owners of the restaurants I don't want to pay someone's salary and I don't think that I should have to tip somebody so the restaurant owner doesn't have to pay them so I think tipping is is one of the worst things about the restaurant industry right now so before before because I know Jared's got feelings on it also so before I go to Jared let me ask you what would be your solution like if if you king of the world and you could just say okay this is how we're going to do things what would be your solution with with the restaurant I'm not even king of my household um it's good to be king So what I would do is I would take every restaurant owner and I would I would teach them that the way to have a better restaurant and a more fulfilling experience in the long run is to encounter each and everyone one of your employees by teaching them uh service and it's all about the level of service so I think that people who are coming to your table and greeting you are more than just somebody to ship the food from the kitchen to your table I think they need to know all the things that's important to the customer and those are the things that I mentioned where is the food from how is it prepared what are the spices or the flavorings all of the things that are important I mean lay the groundwork for me let me know what I'm going to be getting make me want to give you a little extra at the end of the night Matthew this is a really weird analogy but the Indianapolis Zoo actually has a butterfly farm that's a greenhouse environment and it's got butterfly with the hibiscus flowers and stuff and the reason I'm saying that to you for that is is they're just butterflies they're not all that interesting right but if you like to sit there and just watch them fly around in their natural habitat that believe it or not in my weird mind actually translates exactly over to the answer that you just gave so that's actually a very good point because I have a percentage in mind and I'm never really going to go below that I'm not a complainer you got to do something like uncook my meat to where I don't think it's safe before I'm going to complain and I'm not really going to tell people about that experience because you know that's kind of a personal thing but at the end of the day I really I really like that and I see that and you were passionate about your answer you were you using influx and kind of like you know systematically breaking that down so that was a good answer I'm going to flip that over to I want to know what Jared thinks too Jared's coming from a place of ignorance so I need to preface it with ignorance because I'm not in the industry so I don't have that background to give an answer as educated as Matthew so I I need to preface that but I want to ask Matthew just because maybe I want to make sure my thought process is around it um do Europeans have the same tipping system as Americans do they they don't actually uh a lot of places in Europe don't even really accept tips or you could round up that kind of thing so they're not there they don't have those expectations competely different pay structure for that and that is what what I'm going to get into I think the restaurant industry is one of the few Industries where the base pay is significantly below minimum wage and then you have this narrative that is driven for I'd say Decades of the Pay customer you and I are the ones that would have to make up that difference so the opportunity is there to make significantly above minimum wage but the opportunity is there to make at or less than minimum wage so you have a broken system into your relying on two different things one is the restaurant educating their staff to provide the best experience but you're still relling on the generosity of people who might not necessarily or have a preconceived notion just like you said um I have the minimum that I'm going to give well that minimum it can be greatly varied from person to person somebody that said you know what it used to be 10% 30 years ago it's still 10% now even if they provide the best experience so what you have is in in my opinion a broken system that is not getting any better and where the restaurants are already a lot of them their profit margins are already not high to try and pay commensurate at least that's my perspective of course you have variant there and what's happening is a lot of these places are starting to put in a minimum service fee that you don't have an option to pay for this is happening in in in Chicago for example Chicago has 11 and 3/4% food tax a lot of the restaurants have a 20% buil-in service fee so if and I'm talking about the higher end so if you go to those restaurants you're going to be pay 30% of of what your food costs and then a lot of those places will sit there and say if you'd like to add a tip can still add a tip and that is where I think we're headed to make up the difference in exactly the problem that Matthew and the problem that we have created through our labor laws through restaurant perception and through Diner perception where restaurants are going to start adding 20% minimum and people are going to complain but it's not going to deter them from going out to eat because if all all those restaurants stuff start to do it your option is to eat at home and people aren't simply going to do that in the end they're going to pay it and then I think the next Frontier is once that's implemented cuz we're starting to see it around Oklahoma I'm guessing it h it's happens a lot in New York in in California it's certainly happening in Chicago what my the next thing is you're going to have that 20% and still have the opportunity to tip on top of that and people you know I think that it that we're not attacking the root cause of the problem and that is the wages are significantly below minimum wage for whatever reason for decades so this is the portion where we're going to uh thread the Mosaic into the conversation okay so I'm going to hand you guys some boxing gloves we're going to allow you to have at least one fundamental difference in the food industry as a whole so for instance Nick and I um I don't know what a major difference is let's just say do you like spicy yes Nick is a spicy guy I'm not I know we're really simple with the format there but Jared I'm going to have you go first and then Matt's going to follow it up with an agree or disagree and then we're going to play back and forth until we find at least one major fundamental difference almost on the opposite sides of the Earth for this conversation um let's create some conflict I guess is what I'm saying price is less important than the quality you should be willing to pay three times the price you should pay for high quality foods I think something that Jared said before could be turned on its ear a little bit all right all right okay so Jared you mentioned something about the Tipping system and the fact that they're adding on service charges onto the pricing I think a way to kind of fix this issue and this problem is to have the restaurants increase the prices of the food and let them pay the tips to their people instead of charging me an extra service charge which pisses me off I couldn't AB I could absolutely not agree more but you ex and and I would love to see you as the restaurant tour explain to the pissed off customer that where you just charged 20% more for their food where you explain to them I'm doing this because um I need to pay the person more for the service and that that that that customer gets Furious just because the very thought that this price food is going 20% up even though it might still be the same good quality is going to infuriate them to no end and they're not going to come back to your restaurant I think I'm going to break it down simplistically it's just extra line item like I hate I don't even want to throw out a price but you know $65 a plate I'd rather pay it I don't want to pay $47 a plate and end up at 65 I know I'm making this too simple in my world but let's just let's just get that over with and then I got I got to be brutally honest in my family uh there's difference of opinion it's I'm not spending per plate or I'm going to spend what I want to get good food that I think I'm going to really enjoy I'm on the good food enjoy I don't care if I spend an extra 105 $20 for that plate as long as I think it fulfills that and I'm always trying to get different stuff I don't like to go to the commercial sites I like to try to go off um off the beaten P to cliche but I like to go to those individual places so go ahead then then I've got a a punching glove for both of you and then Nick might be and then Matt might be able to defend you all right ready for it let's have it steak is the most overrated thing that we produce in the restaurant and it really is not as good quality as other things on that menu and we are blinded to that I agree I agree I love steak but but I agree no you just you just defended steak wait a second I need I agree but I need to stop and oh but do you is it that's the problem you love it because you've been training your life to love it and that is nothing more American than steak it and and I think it is the most overrated overpriced thing on the menu he must have a steak in the company that he's going to then right I would debate that five years ago differently because I felt like I had to have state because you know I'm going to go back to it I I I want to be full like and and I'm I'm not a I'm not a small quantity guy you know I have high metabolism you know I do a lot of exercises and stuff but I guess I would argue this um I've got to have something on the caliber of say a lobster right or or an expensive fish it can't be a steak and then what I'm going to say I know Matthew has a really good um uh Cuisine for this but I'm going to say chicken in Indiana is not chicken where he's from I I think I can say that just because there's basic stuff that's not used here another uh thing that I'm going to say with that is is I think as time goes on you realize that you don't have to have that would I order steak most times I'm going to be brutally honest yes but that's because I don't feel like there's a lot of better than steak options with the type establishments that I go because I'm more of a uh a three star guy because it's quick and I've got other stuff to do not a four or five star guy that's probably going to take an hour and a half to two hours at any given point in time just so does that mean does that mean that like you think like wagu and Kobe and all that is that a racket you think that's a racket absolutely not I'm not I'm talking American American beef I think that whenever you're talking about the wagu and coob that's a different level okay of have have you had an A5 from Japan from one of the one of the what is it five or six regions um I tell you what I'm going to I'm going to challenge you both go to dart.com for$169 I'd like you to order they're 12 ounces only cook that sucker on high 45 seconds at each time and if it is not and close your eyes when you bite into it if it is not the most incredible piece of steak you've ever put in your mouth send me the bill and I'll pay for it okay I think we're going to spend that though we got to get it on film you know what I mean we got we got to get some likes and Sh I will genuinely all more Cross promo that and we'll talk a little Trash you know I'm assuming both of you have had that experience I've I'm no I've never heard of that company to be honest so that's a good D dartan it sources a lot of higher end stuff it has a reasonable from a good region in Japan$169 for 12 O Matthew do you think that that's actually fairly reasonable for an A5 from one of the regions of Japan the higher end that's probably pretty close yeah yeah so that's that's why it's a good entry level you're going to be spending about $250 $300 for that that piece in a restaurant I'm telling you you want to cook that rare not not a degree above rare is in just my opinion and I I I genuinely mean that if if that is not you're just going to stop and say that that's my prediction and so I will put the caveat on it just like anything else the quality that you're talking about with that I just like before we discuss the quality I'd like your perspective of that quality okay yeah Fair yeah I mean so I think with stake though you're right I think a lot of it is a kind of learned behavior but you know just you're just like you said it's just an American thing but I think with me you know like I don't go out to eat on the daily and when I do it's usually something you know like middle class affordable like I'm not I don't so I guess it's one of those things that since I don't eat steak all the time um I that's why I like steak because I think of it as like a treat you know what I mean like I and and I I suppose I could go and explore other areas but because you know I'm with a bunch of other Americans if I'm going with someone else it's hard to be like hey let's go try the uh you know this um um I don't know like the snails from you know from you know what I mean like I like I don't know so you know so I guess that's it's just it's easy you know it's easy and it's it's kind of a treat you know what I mean I guess that's kind of where I'm at on it did you try the scallops did you try your girlfriend's scallops I did and they were really good yeah yeah those are good so my so the that that is the only thing I can and I'd love I'm sorry Matthew what are your thoughts on my hot taken in general you know amongst the four of us I'm probably the outlier when it comes to ordering steak I probably have only done that a hand full of times in my life unless I was out of stake place but I consider myself more of kind of like an artist I want to see what the chef can do I like complexity I like flavors and layers and colors and food architecture and all of that stuff so those are the things that I'm looking for I'm not looking for a hunk of meat um I just have to be honest I think most people like Jared says um that's what you know a great dinner to them is a is a great Porter House or T-Bone or whatever not for me baby that's not the kind of food that I go for what do you guys think of a like when they when they serve at some of the higher in places the steak tartar right like is that is it is that good like I mean like it to me like this sounds horrible you know like the amount amount of ground beef with a egg on like it sounds but I've never tried it so I mean it's hard for me to make that determination you know but what like what made someone think let's take a amount of ground beef you know and season it really well and then crack an egg over the top of it like the art I'm I'm thinking that Jared probably digs tartar I'm guessing so too I'm I'm seeing his facial expressions here well first off God bless the French I'm pretty sure it's French is it French I would assume so yeah yeah so so first off if it's just let let's give the French the credit what credit is due um what is so let me ask you this Nick I let me get in your mind what is unappealing about that thought exactly uh the first thing would be the raw the completely raw meat you know like like I I like I like I but to be honest I don't eat rare stick I like medium rare okay so I don't like it like necessarily like just bleeding everywhere I don't like I certainly don't like it well done you know or even medium well like I like medium rare but like but like if and maybe I'm wrong but my understanding is it is literally uncooked ground beef is that is that right you're absolutely right so let's let's maybe this this will help whenever you cook a steak meat medium rare do you think that's blood coming out of it uh yeah the red the red stuff that's pooling you I mean I've always assumed so yeah look it up because it's not blood that might actually help get through the narrative that it is blood cuz it's get out of here I really Matthew I'm correct that is not blood from the state that's right it's it's some sort of the juice that remains right that's right and it's just the reason the color for that is is because the color of the meat chicken does it in some ways as well it's just usually cooked you know differently it's just clear so maybe that might help dispel that thought of it's bloody and I had this conversation with with a with an individual the other day said that I can't eat that because it has to be well done because of the blood that comes out that's unclean and it's a religious thing and I told them it's not Blood please look into it well guess what as soon as they found out it wasn't blood they felt obligated to try it loved it at a different temperature so maybe if that might so Nick maybe go ahead go ahead and so the second thing is um the bloodb the any of the pathogens would that you might associate negative with raw meat if it is ground chuck that's not tartar tartar is Gen from A Tender Loin or a higher in cut and what a lot of the restaurants do is they sear the outside put it on a sterile environment with gloves and cut into it with a clean knife and so the the middle if it's a good piece of meat that's that's regulated isn't going to have any bug that would worry about you so maybe that's another thing is you might catch something it a raw piece of meat is the meat at its natural flavor so when I said cook it to a meat to a rare with a wagon um it is such a delicate piece of meat it requires that type of cooking to extrapolate maximum flavor so when you have tartar and you have raw egg if you have it from good source places the bugs aren't going to be there and so what happens is you have this really rich flavor profile and you have the egg that coats your mouth and then you have the Briny shallot that just just cuts through the heaviness of everything a little bit of salt and all of that adds a beautiful flavor profile that is just incredible that you can't get from something that's cooked those would be my concerns what you mentioned so it's good to know that cuz like the first thing I think of is you know when I think of raw meat I think of you know you shouldn't touch raw meat and touch something else you know you shouldn't eat raw you know that's what I think of but um yeah so you say there they take precautions on I mean I guess that would make sense that would make sense you're spending a bunch of money on on that I would assume that people aren't coming out with food poisoning so yeah so Nick you're the chef am I am I correct with anything I've said I think you're correct in most of the things you know one thing guys you don't want to get tartar on a cruise ship yeah let me just that that's good stuff so Nick these guys are all right so they taught us what tips means right I had no idea I thought that was just you know regular they're teaching us about Cuisine so now what we're going to do is guys just uh to wrap this up we're going to put one-word answers such as Savory would be mine to start off what's some one-word catch Buzz phrases or one one or two words to discuss um a very good experience that you've had I know you guys driv in a little bit different Lane of traffic but I think this will be a fun exercise this kind of galvanizes the four of us so we're going to start with Jared go to Matthew and then Nick and I will kind of go let's do about two or three rounds just to have fun it can be a phrase or just kind of a one word Matthew go ahead I go first I'll tell you one word not to use when it comes to describing food moist yeah that's that seems to be a AC cross the board not not good word okay let's talk about cake I think it's one of the least favorite words in the American language I've heard that okay okay jar good adjective so go from so so Jared I guess is gonna go from moist to the next the resistance Easter resist I'm looking for what not to use right no this is what to use this is what I want from an experience is it past or is a STS is it the best of the best is it high end is it perfect from from beginning to end resistance I'm going to throw out a common sense when I'm actually stealing it succulent I was going to say succulent yeah so hey that's why you chime in so you can get you know get the easy words out of the way so go ahead uh vivacious there there you go uh Matthew use an islandic uh if that's even a word uh maybe term that people in the mainland don't hear to describe well describe food or a dish if I were to invite you guys to come eat with me I would ask you if you feel like having a grind together oh I was going to say that sounds now what does that mean in like uh language I guess we translate that for us if you don't mind sorry well Jason the way that you'd like to eat and you'd like to eat a fair amount as as I do as well so we're going to roll up our sleeves we're going to get down we're going to get full we're going to grind together and enjoy it okay okay nice nice Jared uh talk to me about a specific region they in is it Tulsa talk to me about a specific reason uh region in Tulsa uh just to kind of describe that question like we have a massav just to give you some uh like the art continuity here it's kind of artsy it's kind of like a different Cuisine BL do district there you go there you go now explain to me why that's why why did you mention that there's a lot of high-end or higher not just high-end but that's where a lot of the restaurants are that are really good it's it's got the arts district right there with it uh it's it's it's just it's a fun time it's a party there's a lot of bars there there's you can transition and have incredible drinks and uh incredible food and enjoy the art scenes is there anything that Indian appas is known for in the in the food world I mean like I think Jared I think you mentioned before that there was but I know Matthew if you being like on the west coast and then in Hawaii uh is does anything pop or come to mind when it comes to Indiana or Indianapolis of of good I have a wonderful memory of Indianapolis I I might have told you when I was on the show earlier but I when I was on the road with the Eagles during their Hotel California tour I went spent um Thanksgiving there in an Indianapolis holiday in all by myself nice nice hey a quick segue Matthew cuz we're all about rery and I looked forward to this episode and I told Nick this two or three times Matthew please tell the story so I don't Butch it up um cooking for Robin Williams and the kind of the the 151 I believe and I'm going to shut up from there oh yeah the fit so go ahead can you is that enough QE to kind of tell this I'm sure it is he he's looking at me like let me have it so go ahead it was uh this fancy private Chef when I was younger and I once had an interesting experience at Robin Willams house I almost set his house on fire and that was because I was trying to show off when I was cooking for him in his kitchen I went to go flambay the steak we're back at the steak Jared just in case you were wondering and I went I splashed the conac on it and kind of had a little bit of an explosion singed my eyebrows set the drapes on fire behind me turned into a whole thing and um you know the fire department and this and that so I almost shat myself and when it was all said and done at the end of the night and I regained my composure we continued from where we left off he was perfectly fine and wonderful and sweet and I was like worried about my reputation and my future so I wonder if you ever use that a standup you think do you ever like like watch specifically a stand up like I wonder if he's gonna talk about the you know the the flamb had he done that it would have it would have elevated my career propelled me did you did in the ad was that Stak nice and moist and succulent and vivacious thank you that was perfect timing I always like to give a a quick send off here and then Nick's going to do your official social media and stuff because he's better at that uh than I but uh Matthew you know you live in a you live in a great place you know a legendary place in my opinion you know you have a you have a great attitude you really like to see the best on others I like the fact that you're going to tell exactly like it is though and your reviews and your and your continuity with that I think you're a people person and honestly it's been an honor to get to know you your stories are phenomenal I mean just the music side of the house cooking side of the house is kind of common sense for me I guess but like the the music side in correlation with that has just been a just a Wonderful Life man I I couldn't imagine you know having some of those experiences so I want to tip my cap to you for that thank you guys you know for me it's really what what's more important than any experience and any flavor and any taste is to have friends and loved ones uh that I can surround myself with and enjoy food with because that that for me is what it's all about so thank you it's been really been nice getting to know all of you and becoming friends with you I agree Jared for the benefit of Matt uh you've done this for me two or three times and I just can't I I got to ask you for a fourth time but maybe Matt's first time you already know what it is Nick I'm giving you 60 seconds to give me the description of said said play and I'm just uh said Diner at said place and I'll just be quiet Matt you're going to enjoy this I believe go ahead Jared Valentines there's nothing more erotic nothing more sensual than bringing out a perfectly poached lobster tail and it's been poached in butter and champagne for several hours until it's cooked to a beautiful medium rare it sits upon an ethereal light custard of passion fruit as you and then shave coconut is just sprinkled on top as you bite into it an eruption of flavor from the champagne and butter mixes with a lobster and it gives way to Middle notes a beautiful toasted coconut and sweet and notes of custardy passion fruit that just erupts in your mouth as your toes curl from a new experience as you enjoy each bite and form new memories of something wonderful just glad that the camera cuts off at our waist that's all I'm going to say exactly exactly guys I'm happy I'm happy that we did this in this format I think uh this is the first time we've had for here and it's it's cool because you guys play well off each other and it's nice it's it's almost like we're uh uh I'm closer to to to your level if I was down here now I at least know a little bit of what I'm talking about what to look for and quite frankly I'm going to be a little bit more educated the decisions I make and uh if I'm going to take my family out you guys have inspired me I'm not going to take them to a you know an easy place maybe let's let's let's Force the family to be out for an hour and a half on the night on the town that's that's an upgrade for me because I'm never going to have that two two and a half hours of you know a real real uh real fancy it's hard though too like with a family even or even with friends I mean there're so Americans are so picky you know what I mean like so like there's so many people that are um I wonder if I'm wondering if like my girlfall can hear me there's so many people that are like chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese people you know what I mean like they just just what they you know they don't want to go off of what they know so yeah well you know it's interesting when Jared was on my show he waxed poetic over some of those foods and how could you not it's delicious you know it's it's great our foods are fantastic it's just there's a time and a place for everything right that's true I said last to a last I'm going to give you 30 seconds each of you initial impression or or impression right now after having been on for the second time of myself and Nick Matthew Jared Jared you go second and then Nick's going to give you a proper send out with the social media and you're asking for my impression of you of the show of Jared nervous right take that any way you want to but direct it towards Nick and I because we don't always get the guest actually kind of reviewing us as kind of the critic or the or the uh the analyzer if you will so go ahead you guys are are great you wind me up a little bit and and you Mellow Me Out a little bit and it's good to have a new friend even uh you know a podcast host who's who's been so kind to have me on a couple of times so this has been it's been really a great thing and a way for me to be able to express myself and to be able to make new friends you guys are the definition of cool I I I have relished every opportunity to converse with you both and each time you've you've always asked great questions and and I feel like we've learned from each other and even this time I am genuinely excited about you trying a five Wago and I would love to see that happen in real time so you can see and experience a different thing and that's just the whole point being open to new experiences helps us all grow helps our listeners grow and that is what is so wonderful is your energy and it's it's all in fun but it's also an educational format to uplift everybody and the conversation and that's that's a beautiful thing so thank you gentlemen that's the common threat of all four of us I think that's why we make a real good kind of a collage or mosaic with that and I love to change the narrative and everything about what food is and also especially for especially for America you know what I mean like it's and so you know actually that's a great segue for for Jared freed to talk about your book how is your book doing my book's doing pretty good I've sold a couple hundred copies and it it really um it's It's A Feast for the sensus the psychological art of eating well he can find it on on it's a hard copy you got an audio book and you find me on social media at Jared G needs on Facebook Instagram even have a Tik Tok in YouTube I I'm about to do a new review of a place in Tulsa called baren Jeff chanon leay ocean food in the middle of Oklahoma pan food which I think could doing he doing incredible things and so that that's where you can find me and that's where I'm met hey Jared I have a question for you yes sir did you voice your own audio book I what the heck I should have but I didn't because and this is something that that I got feedback from whenever I hear myself on my own like um getting recording for like my phone my voice comes off as high pitched and annoying to me and I thought ooh all think that though like of our own voices you know I mean it's just it's just normal but hey you know Jason's got the he's got the pipes you know so if you ever need someone to voice over uh you know he's got he's got the voice yes you do like to bust it out I I actually pull back as funny as it sounds I actually pull back with kind of the booming you know style because you got to be relaxed you don't want to sound over the top but uh yeah def definite aspirations I really uh my final sendoff will be this I really like the fact that we're all four growing uh two of us in one sector two of us in another the intersection there is the combination of Integrity honesty uh compass for our fellow man and uh women out there as well but uh just the commonality of food I think everybody that listens to this podcast or each of you individually or together has gained knowledge has gained um places and destinations to where if you go to any of those three destinations you've got new places to visit I think we've uplifted uh some some restaurants and some Cuisines and just uh overall been very good I think that's I think that's the def definition of spice of life Entre R preneurship you could you could name that one of one of 20 different directions so I want to challenge everybody to get out there be their best uh go to go to places that they wouldn't normally go and um you know let's get the comments rocking on this let's all four you know work and just uh trash talk a little bit have a good time and uh maybe we add a third person eventually and do this again you know someone that you guys don't know just so it's kind of a little bit of uh some someone that's anti food there you go they're anti so there you go there you go yeah we you should get someone who Jared and I could gang up on yeah like what well like what about like what about like a like strictly a juicer like nothing but juic no you know what a vegan get a vegan so we get I had you guys knew some good vegan Cuisine I didn't want to say anything I hate to say the name and I want to be polite just real quick and I'll get to you Jared you guys remember Ron poil yeah a guy like that would be funny because he's like you know kind of in in in a specific Lane of traffic I guess is what I would say with all all due respect go ahead Jared a true if you could find one entrepreneur because the top entrepreneurs that I'm aware of for example are Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs food was not of interest to them so they would all they would have the same meals every day just like they'd wear the same clothing because that eliminates a thought that they could put that thought pattern to somewhere else so food played very little role other than I need to be healthy and I need to be full that's yeah that's a good one yeah the minimalist lifestyle or it's just kind of is is burger and fries and coke if I'm not mistaken almost every every seven days a week and it's it's it the mindset there is of I need to eliminate something that is not important for my bottom line food clothing the essentials I just need me dressed turtleneck and and jeans every day burger and fries doesn't matter if my taste buds are sick of it I don't have time that I or I do not think this is important to think about Matthew could never get along with those people at all I'm just saying there's your person if you could find that person there's your person to really that's a good idea exactly Matthew I want to give you an opportunity as well do you have any projects you want to mention or any upcoming things over here well he's got his his podcast and yeah like definitely talk about want give you that opportunity and then uh we'll go from there thanks guys 50 tastes of gray is my show we talk obviously we're food forward over here but we also talk about psychology and sexuality and society and culture and art and music and all those things it's a longform conversation that I have with my guests and it's you know it's a little bit uh Cutting Edge for today because in this short attention span theater that we're living in people don't have the time to sit and listen to a long form like what we've done today and for me being an old radio guy guy from way back when this is what I I really get off on is getting to know somebody and revealing them behind the scenes and letting the people who are listening or watching get to know the you behind the facade