Darnell Hillman & Scott Tarter | ABA, NBA, & Dropping Dimes | Episode #39

In this episode of the Mosaic Minds podcast, hosts Nick and Jason engage with Darnell Hillman and Scott Tarter, discussing the Dropping Dimes Foundation, which supports former ABA players facing hardships. They share personal stories of players in need, the impact of the foundation, and the upcoming documentary that aims to shed light on the struggles of these athletes. The conversation also touches on the evolution of basketball styles, personal connections between the guests, and the legacy of the ABA in the context of the NBA. In this engaging conversation, Nick and Jason explore the rich history of basketball in Indiana, the impact of media on the growth of the ABA, and the future aspirations for player recognition and support. They delve into the legacy of Darnell Hillman, the first-ever slam dunk champion, and discuss the importance of community engagement through the Dropping Dimes Foundation, which aims to support former ABA players and their families.

Support Dropping Dimes - https://droppingdimesfoundation.org
Check out the Documentary - The Waiting Game

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Transcript

0:01

just because. Like we got are we gonna have to get a little cozier? Nah, you're good. You're perfect. I want to be cozy. I'm to put it on baseball. Exactly. right. Hold on one second. I'm doing good. How are you guys? earbuds, guys. Sorry about that. So I don't know how it works. You actually sound pretty good. So yeah, it's, all good. It's a lot of times when depending on the, on the software they have or whatever, you know, without the earbuds, it's just a constant echo. Do we sound okay? Okay. Cool. We appreciate you guys being in the same venue too. That just makes it a little easier from a tech standpoint for us as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, well, if you guys are ready, we'll go ahead and get started. We just finished wilting down some Chick-fil-A by the way. man, that sounds good. I'm jealous. Welcome to another episode of Mosaic Minds podcast. My name's Nick and to my left here is Jason. And today we're thrilled to be joined by two incredible guests who are not only legends in their own right, but are also here to shed light on a powerful story that they have. First, we have the iconic Darnell Hillman, a former ABA and NBA star. known for his jaw dropping dunks and leadership on the court. And joining him is Scott Tartter, a successful attorney and co-founder of the Dropping Dimes Foundation, an organization that's dedicated to support former ABA players. And we actually had Bob Nettolicki on here. That was the first time that I had ever heard of Dropping Dimes Foundation was when we had Bob on and he kind of filled us all in. And that's kind of what sparked our interest on the whole organization, because I'm sure if we didn't know how much of a problem that that was. I'm sure that a lot of people don't. So it's great that you guys are bringing awareness to this. So if you could just give us a little bit of background about the Dropping Dimes Foundation and then the video or the documentary that you guys are promoting and kind of when it's airing and how people can watch it. Well, how I got involved with it was my former teammate Mel Daniels was a scout for the Pacers at the time, and he was traveling around the country scouting different players, but he was running into ABA players that had fallen upon hard financial times. And Mel had a real big passion about this and was very, very hurt to see guys that we competed against. were now living in their cars, on the bridges, on the street with their in-laws or brothers and sisters, things of that nature. And these guys had lost their dignity and their pride. So Mel introduced me to Mr. Tarter here and several of his other coworkers there. And they decided to start a Dropping Dimes Foundation, which Mel came up with the title to that Dropping Dimes. The idea is to raise dollars to help assist former ABA players that are falling upon hard times. Do you guys mainly with with dropping dimes, do you guys mainly help out and support with like medical expenses and things like that? Or is it just anything and everything that they may need? It's anything and everything. We've helped with medical expenses. We've helped arrange pro bono medical procedures. We have helped guys avoid foreclosure. We've helped guys avoid eviction. We've helped with just standard finance, which you might call financial needs, right? Helped them pay some bills that they weren't able to pay, kept them out of bankruptcy, that sort of thing. But the goal all along was to try to get broader awareness of in recognition of what the ABA players did and what they mean to current pro basketball. And we're still fighting that fight, that's for sure. Scott, I tip my cap to you first for the initiative and then Darnell taking that vision of what you've seen in your fellow players, you know, go through some tough times and to be able to advocate for both of them. It's an awesome philanthropic story. It's just a phenomenal. Darnell talk to us a little bit about not necessarily by name, but just tell us a story or two that's really heartfelt that you've dealt with personally about one of your brothers, you know, in the ABA, that's maybe struggled and went through some tough times and kind of how this organization has maybe helped that person. Well, if I had to choose and pick, it would be the very first player that dropping dimes helped. His name was Charles Jordan. He played here in town. I believe he and I played together on the 76-77 team and Charles left the NBA and went over to Italy and played over there. He was over there for about 27-28 years. Well, he fell upon some hard physical times and his sister was able to get him back here to America. And once she got him back here, I was working for the Pacers at that time and she reached out to me to see if we could assist with getting Charles some shoes, maybe a warmup suit, something with some Pacers logo on it. And Dropping Dimes was just getting off. to start then. So I told her about reaching out to Dropping Dimes and they reached out to Dropping Dimes and Scott and the gang were able to help him. They took him over to what was that? A big and tall store. Yeah, big and tall store. Got him outfitted with suits and shoes and all the necessities that he needed. And it really brought up his spirit. It made him feel comfortable again, feel like a human being again. And that's where That would be my first story and seeing how we did that and just the launch on that, I knew we were into something that was going to go pretty good. And we'll come back to this again, with the movie, tell us a little bit about that as far as like what inspired, well, we know what inspired it, but what kind of what you would hope that the viewers would get out of it, out of the movie if they went and saw it. I would think we just want them to know all of the facts and truth about the so-called merger, which didn't turn out to be a merger, and how it impacted the ABA players. Those players that did not get to move from the ABA into the NBA, they no longer had a pension and they no longer had anything to fall back on. And it's those guys that I was more concerned about than anything. Some of us that went into the NBA and you play what? Three years. Three years and then you qualify for the pension in the NBA. But we were under the understanding that you'd be able to take the ABA and NBA years and combine them and get an NBA pension. And that just did not happen. And that's what I think we're bringing light to, to everyone to understand exactly why we're saying what we're doing. It's so powerful. There's a saying out there and I'm going to butcher it, but basically says you have to know what the 20th floor looks like before you build the foundation. And what's so great about you guys sitting in the same room is Darnell, you built the foundation, right? Back in the late sixties, early seventies to, to pioneer this cause Scott, you took the baton running the four by 100 and just ran it up the track. Tell me about a little bit of your dedication, Scott, with, the slowness of the moving, the dedication that you had to have and the determination that you had to have because it matriculated, in my opinion, very, it took some time. It was, it was a long burn process. Can you talk to me a little bit about that process from your side of the desk? Yeah, yeah, sure. It really was a long burn. That's absolutely true. You know, from my perspective, was, guess, fortunate enough to be in a position that I was to try to help these guys who were all my heroes. Darnell was actually my favorite player. When I was 10 years old, that was Darnell's rookie season. And he and I are really good personal friends now, but it's really wild. I still tell him to this day, you know, we'll end up at Lincoln Square Pancake House every two or three weeks. And every once in a I'm still just looking at him and all of a sudden I'm thinking, man, you're Darnell Hillman. We can be close as friends for 20 years and it's still going to feel that way to me. So it was very fortunate to be in this position. then also Michael Hussain, the director and producer of The Waiting Game, we didn't participate. None of the players, no one at Dropping Times participated in the storytelling. or that, you it wasn't a scripted thing. He was just following us around and we could have fallen flat on our face as far as not achieving the recognition payment. And the one thing I want to tell everybody I possibly can is that that was accomplished. He turned me into sort of the storyteller in the film. I'm a little bit embarrassed by that because I played a pretty significant role as a storyteller. But, you know, John Abrams was my co-founder of the Dropping Dinos Foundation. You know, it never would have gotten off the ground without him. agreeing to do this at the very beginning. Ted Green, the filmmaker, was our third board member. And most importantly, the three of us, nobody at the NBA's offices in New York would have listened to any or all of us if it wasn't for Garnell and Mel Daniels and all the Hall of Fame ABA players, know, Bob Costas, Spencer Haywood, Artis Gilmore, Julius Irving, George McGinnis, Slick Leonard, Nancy Leonard, all of these folks joined the cause early on and gave us credibility. And That's what started this movement really, really rolling. And so by the time you have that many legends and former heroes of ours when we were kids who were behind us and sort of saying, guys, you got to do this, there was never going to be any quit. And we were going to keep going as long as we had to. Love the determination there. And you know, they say, you know, what is it in 49 States is basketball, but this is Indiana. talk to us a little bit. We grow basketball, right? Instead of, know, you're to go out to the cornfield and there's basketballs growing out of it. Right. So, Darnell talked to me a little bit about, I've, on a personal level, I've owned an ABA ball before. love seeing the rotation of that ball, but talk to me a little bit about how the style on the court, the up pace, the, having fun, the fan friendly. kind of brings it full circle for you to see and kind of advocate for those brothers through the, dropping dimes that you experienced. I would think that you would have to go back to before the ABA came along, the style of play that the NBA had. If you were 6'11", 7'', you're going to play on the block, no exception. If you were 6'11", or a little shorter, then you could be a power forward. 6'8", 6'9", you'd be maybe a power forward, depending on your skill set. and possibly getting to handle the ball. But the NBA had so much restriction based on your size and height. Whereas the ABA, when we came along, we came along with, didn't matter what your size and height was, it was about your skill set. So if you were a seven footer and you could face the basket and shoot the ball from the three point line, we were gonna let you get out there and shoot that ball from the three point line. What's that do? That stretches the defense. That pulls every big shot blocker out of the middle. And now all of our smaller guys are now able to go inside into pink and score a lot easier. The style of play, because the NBA, I can remember, you you had those coaches that do the simple thing, make the simple pass, make the easy layup. The ABA was about a little flair behind the back, a little showmanship. We were going to put a little razzle dazzle in on it. But you had better make the basket or else the coach is going to bring you over here on the sideline. But coaches start to be real flexible and allowing these guys to do this. And I think this really promoted a lot of players that probably thought they didn't have a chance to get in to really try out because of their, their good skill sets of what they can do and accomplish on the floor. I mean, Billy Keller was our smallest player on the team, but Billy could go out there and run with the big ones and keep up with us because he knew how to play the game. And that was for pretty much any ABA player that came into the league. He had one or two very, very strong suits that he could utilize out there on the floor that made him very, very valuable to ball teams. Sounds very suspiciously like today's NBA, doesn't it? It does. Hey Scott, talk to me a little bit about, the excitement that you get from sitting across the guy that you watched on TV. Now, you know, I'm not going to hide it. I'm mid forties and I grew up with magic, Barkley, Elijah one and those guys, but just, you know, being from Northern Indiana in the middle of cornfields, I got to watch Billy Packer and Brent Musburger on a Saturday afternoon. And that's all I got. So whatever teams were on there, that's what I got. But talk to me a little bit about sitting across from a, I had his basketball card. Hey, I was at the arena, you know, Talk to me a little bit about that if you don't mind. Yeah, no, not at all. It's so funny. And Dee has heard me say that several times. It's kind of funny because we really are just the best of friends now. it's just, it's, that's more important to me now knowing who he is as a man conforms to who I thought he was when I was a boy. but when I was a boy, I went to, you remember the old Washington Square Mall on the East side of Indianapolis? I don't know if either of you remember that, but I think it might still be there, but. think yeah, it's still there. think there's like police station in it now. think, don't, I don't know if it was his rookie season or his second season. You know, I was out playing basketball. played in eighth grade. You know, I tried to play in high school, but I wasn't good enough to stay sick around and play varsity. But I always pretended like I was Darnell and I made my mom drive me to Washington square mall because I read in the newspaper that Darnell Hillman was going to be there signing autographs. And I stood for an hour in line. And to this day. He didn't believe me the first time I told him this and I had to bring him the frayed old yellow autograph that he gave me back then to demonstrate to him. But he was a hundred percent my favorite player on the team and he's the only guy I waited in line for to get an autograph. He's the only guy I ever asked for an autograph. And so yeah, it's unreal. I mean, it's like, yeah. that's gotta be wild to think back. Like, you know, never in a million years, I'm sure you would have thought you guys would just be sitting here hanging out, you know, and doing an interview together. Almost brings me to tears because dad took me to the baseball and the basketballs of the world and had that similar experience. Now, Darnell, I promised Nick I would stay on topic, but I got to throw a random one out here. You said you work for the Pacers. Now, am I wrong to say that you were a black coded? I don't want to call it a security guard, but am I Am I wrong or right by that? I am wrong. Okay. the story was there was a gentleman of about your build that you would be crazy to run out on the court. was about your height. So that's the only reason I asked that. So that was just a random question. So, so I apologize, but this guy was about your build, about your height. I can't, I can't say the name because I'm not sure who it was, but he was, I remember thinking as a little, a little guy, you would be kind of crazy to run in that guy's section because he would, you know, He would destroy you obviously. Hey, so talk to me about, you've named some who's who of basketball and you know how it connects. talk maybe about an antidote that you experienced as, as competition. And now you're kind of allies in this cause together. I know you've mentioned some locals. Maybe do you have a national, national, name or, or a person that you competed hard against and now you're kind of allies in the same cause. Hmm. Hmm. Is the first one. Yeah, I would think Dan Issel or actually that we're in the same cause. would probably be. Gilmore, Dan Issel, Louis. Dan Fier. Yeah. Actually, I'm going to back up. Instead of Dan Issel, we're going to say Artis Gilmore. Artis was my nemesis out there on the floor. I could get fortunate enough to block Artis's dunk shots from time to time or his jump shot. But Artis was one of two people in the league. that could catch my dunk and throw me and the ball down to the floor. And it was just really upset the heck out of me. understand? Hey, talk to me a little bit about your skillset today. Okay. Now, I know you're a high flyer. I know you, I know you were a multi-positional guy. You didn't gravitate towards your height. You gravitated to where you could get on the court, your comfort spots. I've done a little bit of film study on you, but talk to me a little bit about how your skillset would translate to today's game. And then maybe tell me how your training was a little bit different than to what you see typically today. Well, first of all, I believe back in our day, we had to be complete ballplayers. You had to be able to play all ends and aspects of the game. Pass, shoot, rebound, defense, along that nature. Now today's players have become specialists. So a guy can only do one or two of those things very, very well, but the others, he falls way, way off. So if I were able to play in today's game in the NBA, I'd probably be a maybe a three or a two. But I have to my feet set because I'm not real fast with dribbling the ball, although I could handle it. I just wasn't real, real fast with it. So being able to create my own shot would probably be my toughest thing, but I think I could still pull it off. And when I look at today's guys, especially the way the defense has played, You can't touch anybody today. You know, the guys get four and five steps going to the hoop for a layup. Like, man, this would be heaven for me. Let me ask you guys, when it comes to the ABA, because we have a pretty wide array of, as far as our demographic, like it's not all, we don't do all sports episodes, we do all kinds of different topics. So especially for some of the younger ones, why do think that the struggles of the former ABA players have remained largely under the radar? Because like I said at the beginning, until Bob came on, I didn't even know that that was such a real thing. So why do you think that's remained? under the radar so much, even though they contributed so much to what now is the NBA. I think initially when the league got off and got launched in the ABA, we were counting on the cities being able to support the teams and at some point you were expecting to get TV contracts. Well, the competition between the NBA and the ABA, the NBA didn't want ABA games on the three networks, CBS, ABC and... ABC. ABC, CBS, and NBC. They didn't want any of those ABA games on there. And the only reason we were able to survive, I think, as a league was Cable was coming along at that time. And Cable was willing to pick us up in different regions and started showing some of our games. Well, some of your larger cities started to hear about the kind of play that we had. And then they started to see some of this on television. and they wanted to see more and more of it because it was exciting to watch and the different things that we did. Plus the red wine blue was very colorful and amusing to look at in flight. So I think a lot of fans and spectators wanted to see what the big roar was. Then you started to hear about the players that we had in the ABA. So you think it was a large, largely a part of the, just the lack of coverage from the media. You could probably say that. And it was a new league trying to get off and get started. So was going to take some time to grow. But you wanted to have a fair shot at Scott and Darnell. I was going to tell you that that, event, I apologize. It slipped in my mind that Dan Issel spoke as the keynote speaker downtown Indy, about six months ago, Scott, saw you speak and I was there kind of front and center back about two tables from where you spoke and Darnell, I met you there in the hallway after that event. that kind of puts two and two together for me there. So, just that's kind of. You know, a push for us and kind of hearing of that, talk to me a little bit about, being in Indiana in the sixties and seventies, I understand, you know, I grew up in the nineties and the two thousands, but basketball foundation was already built right from a high school level. You know, as a second, the third grader, I'm shooting out on a grass court on the side of a barn. You know, I'm not afraid to say that, but talk to me about, I've heard stories and, going a little off topic, but let's do it. Wheeler mission. heard there was some good ball there. heard Ben Davis high school. was good ball there. Talk to me a little bit about the pickup basketball scene in Indianapolis. Cause I've heard there was some better games out on those and I'm not taking away from your skill. I'm just saying, I heard the pickup games were just phenomenal on the playgrounds and stuff. Kind of the barnstorming end of it. Talk, talk to me a little bit about that. Me or Donnell? Either or, either perspective would work. Okay. here until 71. I'll pull back on that Scott. Tell me a little bit about that because you would have grown up here locally and I apologize on that Darno on that one. Go ahead. grew up on the east side of town and I was an IPS guy. So, my understanding, although I never played, was that in the, in the sixties and the early seventies, the Dust Bowl downtown was the place to play. And I know, you know, Darnell's probably familiar with a lot of guys he played with, including Oscar Robertson, who actually played at the Dust Bowl and a lot of former teammates of, D's from the Indiana Pacers. And if I'm not mistaken, I think George McGinnis even played there. Yeah. But for me, it was always various playgrounds on the east side of town. And if you went to IPS schools, then they would be these outdoor courts and these outdoor playgrounds, depending on which school you went to, that could just be outrageously competitive. know, all way through to when I went to law school down in Bloomington back in 1985, even at that time period, you you would go and play at the Hyper. the gym as we called it back then. know, you've got court number one would it be full of former division one players, you know. And I've been down to the hyper actually one time and my buddy forgot his ID and I was shocked, but they wouldn't let us in. So I drove down to the hyper to kind of live that experience. so Scott talked to me about the next, what do you see out the, what do they call that the mirage out that you can see out to the furthest of your vision? What do you see if you could have it your way and you could snap a finger in two years out from the day, what would you see today? What would you see out two years maybe about how the organization's kind of molding growing? getting more cause, getting more traction. How do you see that working in two years? Well, know, the recognition payments when the NBA announced a couple of years ago that they were going to do this $24.5 million benefit, what we had been fighting for all these years, it was really bittersweet for John Abrams and I and Ted Green and the rest of the players because, you know, that $24.5 million sounds great and a press release, but that's an actuarial number that, you know, and so... It's not likely that that group of guys, unfortunately, is going to live long enough for that money to be paid out. And more importantly, there are 24 guys, including Darnell Hillman, who played three years or more and should have been recognized by the NBA in these payments. But because they also played as a part of their career, a lot of them a much smaller part of their career in the NBA, they weren't allowed to be a part of it for legal reasons. From John and my perspective, the future would be, hey, what about those 24 guys? This should have been an ABA recognition payment. You got to pick up those 24 guys. We argued, we fought, we did everything we could to get the NBA to recognize those guys. And the lawyers won. The New York lawyers for the NBA won on that one. So that would be number one. Number two would be no survivors benefits. So as these players pass away, their widows are left having gotten a little bit used to a tiny cushion. And so we're going to try to get the NBA to help that, but we'll be there for the Widows right now. We were working today to help a Widow keep her house at a foreclosure. And then we also are trying to look into the possibility of doing scholarships for ABA players in the ABA players names in memoriam to young players who come from their high schools, like Mel Daniels, Pershing High School in Detroit. We've done that already. Scott, it's, beautiful, you know, cause it brings me to tears hearing you speak because with, with respect to both of you, you've got a legend on the court. You've got a legend off the court, but you guys merge in the middle almost at half court, man. It's a, it's phenomenal. Darnell, there you go. There you go. There you go. We don't want coming to paint Darnell. I'm going to go. I keep looking at how can I be his favorite player when we had Mel Daniels, Freddie Lewis, Bob Nalekki, Billy Keller, just to name a few of them, and then he picks me as his favorite player. was like, man, I was... your shoulders back, man. Now, Darnell, bear with me here. I'm going to try to give you an antidote. I hope you remember it, but I know it might've been some years. Now I did a little research on a sound bite and I'm a little confused. I got to ask you a question, but please use some humor because I think I can get it right. You said sometimes you're seven two, sometimes you're six nine. Well done. Could you explain what that meant? I'm not trying to confuse you if you don't remember, but you said you're seven two and I'm going to speak on the swag and the style that you brought to the court. And I'll leave it open and let you take it from there. What you're talking about is when I came to professional basketball, I came right out of the army. And if you've ever been in the military, you know, they make you wear a bald head. And I hated the bald head. So when I came out of the service, I saw a picture of a Angela Davis, who was a And she's somewhat of a radical civil rights activist. Yeah. So there we go. Civil rights activists. And the movement was the Afros and style of dressing things, starting to sweep around the country. And I saw Afro and I decided that's what I'm growing right there. So what you're referring to now is when people say, well, how big is your Afro and how tall are you? And I would tell them I'm six, nine, but seven, two with the Afro. Love it, man. Love it. Love it. Thanks for humor me, man. I just saw that. It was just so phenomenal. Cause normally, you know, as we well know, a guy will be at even height, like, or they'll try to get him up, you know, to where he could play the next position, height and things. So, I do want to say about, about Scott, even, even though you, you claimed that, you know, you're not the, you're not the celebrity and all that I have heard your name so many times. So I know that you do a ton of stuff behind the scenes. It's just that the camera. isn't on you. know, I'm whether you know it or not, your name comes up constantly. So I was kind of excited to see it because it's like I've heard your name so many times just never actually been able to put a face to it. So just just so you just to give you a little bit of praise, you know, over that. you saying that. I must be like the only lawyer, you know, on the face of the earth who hates public speaking. think I've gotten used to it because of these guys. I've gotten used to talking to great people like you and answering questions about the cause and the ABA and the dropping dime. So I get more more comfortable with it. yeah, I'm not, the dropping dime foundation wouldn't exist and the cause would have never gotten anywhere without the Hall of Fame. players who are on our advisory board and the guys like Darnell who always supported us without getting any fanfare. Well, know that we're just a small production, but any part that we can ever play, we love to be a part of anything like that. Anything that we believe in, we like to be a part of it. So if there's anything that we can ever do, any way that we can ever help out, please let us know, because we'll be more than happy to jump in. Well, we could, can I do like an unabashed, Darnell and I are also business partners on a venture where we call Atlanta Sports. It's a business that is named after my deceased mother. And so if you were at the event at the old timers club, you'd probably saw me break down in tears at just thinking about her that night because my father was there. But the company is called Atlanta Sports and If your viewers appreciate the kind of history that we've been talking about tonight, we have the exclusive rights to make the official ABA basketball. And so we've been making that basketball with the only ones who can do the absolute exact same design. And we donate 100 % of our profits to the Dropping Dimes Foundation. yeah, if you guys want to help us promote the sale of those basketballs, we'd come. If you got like some, maybe like any, any little video clips or you want to put something together for us that we could, that we could use, you know, like just feel free to send them over and, we'll, yeah, we'll definitely, we'll figure out a way to weave that in for sure. Guys, it's a symbolic gesture, but the least that I could do is just tell you, I'm so proud of both of you guys are rock stars in your own arenas. Right. And, I'm going to have one of those basketball sitting on my 14 year old son's desk. Fantastic. It's seriously bad. I'm tearing up because the one time I had it, it was popped by a cactus out in Phoenix after 24 hours. It literally hit it and it just busted it. But anyway, true story. And it brings me to tears because I've been a basketball story and growing up in Indiana, you know, picked up my first basketball at two or three, fed some chickens, scraped up the grass, and then it was dirt, then it was gravel, then it was gym. So I'm, you know, I'm not saying I'm the traditional Indiana player, but all I could do is shoot the long ball. You know, that's what I did in, in, in talking to a couple of legends here in Indy and across the nation that have a great spirit in their heart. And, it just, it's sad and unfortunate, but if you guys stand up and you keep doing what you're doing, I think the cause just keeps growing. And I hope we're a very small part of it. It's been a blessing to have you guys on. And I want to leave you with this very few times in my broadcasting career. Cause I was a broadcasting student 25 years ago. Fast forward to today. I'm blessed to talk with people from all over the country. I was nervous about this one because you guys are very humble. You were light. He was nervous. Yeah. And I was just like, man, we're talking to some rock stars because you know, you just, it's such a great cause for philanthropy helping just cause, you know, the slow burn, the ABA and man, it just comes together. It's mosaic minds, but that's a mosaic of thoughts and abilities and just really doing what's right for the betterment of, of the ABA players that deserve what they get. Well, you guys, you guys are awful empowering and you're awful. I always have a huge amount of respect. That's why I think Darnell was in was always supposed to be my favorite player because he was always going to be my, my motivator. as I got older and I always appreciate starting with him, starting with Mel Daniels actually, and Darnell. I always appreciate guys who were able to just, you know, be down to earth, you know, be humble and, and spend time inspiring and lifting others and see you guys are already doing that right here. And I'm sure you do it a lot of times on your podcast. So thank you. that. Darnell, if I can, I'd like to give you one last shout out, man. I know, I know I've, I've heard your humble about this, but is it okay to talk about, your experience? Just last antidote here about, being the first ever slam dunk champion. Is that okay? Or would you rather kind of graze around that? Okay. Okay. Okay. So now, now that we're back in and I promise this will be our last topic and then we'll let you mention all your social media, but I want you to give me a quick antidote man. Cause Man, that's legendary stuff. grew up with the players that I grew up in my era. I don't care about that right now. I'm getting cold chills as I'm asking you this question. Give me something good on it. Well, the story was when the leagues got together, every team had a dunk off internally. And whoever the winner was from each team, that individual is going to represent that team against the rest of the league. So Nancy Leonard happened to be one of our executives in the building after she got this information from the league. She walks into our practice one day and she tells us, the NBA is going to have a dunk contest and you guys are supposed to have a eternal dunk contest to see who's gonna represent the team. But she looked at every guy on the team and said, darn, I was gonna represent the team. we had four other players that could jump that wanted to be in that and their mouths just fell open. I represented the Pacers. I was traded mid-season, went to the Nets. The Nets thought I was going to be representing them, but the league came back and said, no, you represent the team that you started off with. As I continued each round, I earned $300 for each of my teammates. I get to the All-Star Game and I have to go up against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. In Milwaukee. At the All-Star Game. In Milwaukee. and we had a coin toss and I won the coin toss and I elected to have him go first. I put the pressure on myself and of course, Kareem, people don't know, but Kareem has some pretty good spectacular dunks for guys of his size. He did a dunk during warmup that terrified me. I had five dunks that I listed in a by number. And when I saw Kareem do this dunk, he made me shake up my whole thing so that my last dunk was always called rock the cradle. Well, when Kareem got done, I said, I've got to get the attention of every one of these fans in here. So I started off mine with rock the cradle and won that be Kareem and go to the championship out in Portland. the 1977 NBA finals. Yeah. And. after winning out there, Brent Musburger calls me in his suite and he says, Hey Darnell, would you go, one-on-one against Julius Irving to see who the best is? And I said, well, excuse me, Brent, is there a problem? I'm the best this year. I just won with it. Why am I going to go one-on-one against him and I just won and he was in it just like the rest of it. So Brent kept at me wanting to go and go against Julius. What's in it for me? You have me taking all the risk. He wanted me to put up my 15,000 that I just wanted to go one-on-one against Julius. So, Musburger goes, I'll go to CBS, see if they'll put up 10 grand, if you'll put up your 25, and you go one-on-one against Julius Irving. I pointed my finger at him and I told him, have my home phone number and you have my home address. He was like, two weeks. If I haven't heard from you in two weeks, I'm negotiating my check. That's where we are today. I never heard from you. That's good stuff, man. That that's a, that's phenomenal. Now all good broadcasters try to segue, right? I'm going to let you leave with this. Scott, could you tell me about any, maybe social media upcoming events, just a one last time to kind of solidify the conversation you had with us and mention any, any social media links, events coming up, how people can get involved. know you've mentioned one, but yeah, let's start with the, let's start with the movie though. Like where, know, where people can see it, how they can find it and that sort of thing. Well, it was part of the waiting game, was part of the Heartland Film Festival. So it was only shown during the festival this week. It won the People's Choice Award for Best Documentary. it ended up getting, yeah, isn't that amazing? So you can still go to the Heartland Film Festival website and you can now for $15 to support the film festival, you can still stream the waiting game all the way through this Friday. I don't know what kind of distribution Michael and his team are going to have after that. So we're just going to be anxiously awaiting to see what they do. I do want to mention too though, are you aware that the Amazon Prime is going to be coming out with a four episode series on the ABA called Soul Power a year from now? And Darnell and I both are making, I'm making a small appearance, Darnell's making significant appearances in that. in that docu-series. So keep your eyes open for any of your fans who love basketball history. Four episode series, amazingly done by Amazon, that tells the whole story of the EAB from the beginning to the end. If somebody wanted to support the Dropping Diamonds Foundation, where could they go to do that? Do you guys have a your website, do have a spot where people can donate or anything like that? We sure do. Yeah. They can go to droppingdimes.org is our website and we've got social media out there too, but the easiest way to support us and to donate would be to go to droppingdimes.org and there's an easy way that we walk you through how to donate and help the cause. And we have law firms, accounting firms, anybody who does work for us, all our board, no one gets compensated. Everything is pro bono. So 100 cents of every dollar that's donated goes directly to the players. Scott's a rock star in them promos. Hey guys, give us a proper send off, man. I'm putting you on the spot a little bit from, I'm going to call fan to legend and meeting in the middle, face each other and give yourself a high five. we're going to send you out. There you go guys. There you go. High fives. Hey guys, we're off. not live. If it's not too much to ask that we would just ask that you stay on for maybe a minute and a half.